Klarinet Archive - Posting 000184.txt from 2006/04

From: "James A. McGlinchey" <jam62@-----.edu>
Subj: [kl] RE: klarinet Digest 18 Apr 2006 09:01:01 -0000 Issue 6617
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 10:08:10 -0400

RE: McIntire Clarinet (McIntyre?)

I published an article on the McIntyre Clarinet in the March 2001 issue
of The Clarinet. The article contains the fingerings you're looking for.
If you want a copy of the article, let me know and I'll scan it for you.

I have restored a McIntyre clarinet to playable condition. With some
concentration I can play it.

James A. McGlinchey

Asst. Prof. Information Sciences and Technology
Pennsylvania State University
Delaware County Campus, Classroom 207G
25 Yearsley Mill Road
Media, PA 19063-5596
(610) 892-1263 (PSU Office)

e-mail: jam62@-----.edu

"It's not what you fling. It's the fling itself."

-----Original Message-----
From: klarinet-digest-help@-----.org
[mailto:klarinet-digest-help@-----.org]
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 5:01 AM
To: klarinet@-----.org
Subject: klarinet Digest 18 Apr 2006 09:01:01 -0000 Issue 6617

klarinet Digest 18 Apr 2006 09:01:01 -0000 Issue 6617

Topics (messages 87268 through 87284):

what is a note board?
87268 by: Rien Stein
87269 by: Bill Foss

Re: Education- was: To Dee ----
87270 by: Anne Bell
87271 by: Ormondtoby Montoya

info on "McIntire" clarinet
87272 by: Bill Foss
87273 by: Nancy
87275 by: Bruce M
87276 by: Bruce M
87277 by: George Huba

Re: advice?
87274 by: Nancy Buckman
87278 by: Laurence Beckhardt
87279 by: dnleeson

Re: Business aspects of music performance & education
87280 by: Dee Flint
87281 by: Warren Rosenberg
87282 by: Wayne Thompson
87283 by: Audrey Travis
87284 by: Ormondtoby Montoya

Administrivia:

To subscribe to the digest, e-mail:
klarinet-digest-subscribe@-----.org

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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 23:28:23 +0200
To: "klarinetlijst" <klarinet@-----.org>
From: "Rien Stein" <rstein@-----.nl>
Subject: what is a note board?
Message-ID: <001001c66265$db3af190$6402a8c0@rien>

David

I looked on your website (www.notestaff.de) and found in the German
version
that you sell "Notenbretter", in English "note boards".
As i didn't know the meaning of neither the German nor the English word,
I
used all dictionaries I have to find out what that is.

No dictionary helped me out, however. Could you please tell me, what a
note
board is?

Kind greetings

Rien

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 17:30:54 -0400
To: <klarinet@-----.org>
From: "Bill Foss" <billfoss47@-----.net>
Subject: Re: [kl] what is a note board?
Message-ID: <000e01c66266$35e51670$0401a8c0@OEMcomputer>

If you "click" on NOTEBOARD it will go to a page that completely
explains
what it is !

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rien Stein" <rstein@-----.nl>
To: "klarinetlijst" <klarinet@-----.org>
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 5:28 PM
Subject: [kl] what is a note board?

> David
>
> I looked on your website (www.notestaff.de) and found in the German
> version that you sell "Notenbretter", in English "note boards".
> As i didn't know the meaning of neither the German nor the English
word, I
> used all dictionaries I have to find out what that is.
>
> No dictionary helped me out, however. Could you please tell me, what a

> note board is?
>
> Kind greetings
>
> Rien
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> Klarinet is a service of Woodwind.Org, Inc. http://www.woodwind.org
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 18:37:09 -0400
To: klarinet@-----.org
From: Anne Bell <bell@-----.net>
Subject: Re: [kl] Education- was: To Dee ----
Message-ID: <44441895.4080609@-----.net>

Ormondtoby Montoya wrote:
> Anne Bell wrote:
>
>
>>[Some exceptions- IEP students do portfolio
>>assessments rather than take the state
>>standardized test.]
>
>
> No. Just for the record, Anne, this is *not* true in all states.
It
> is not true in California, for example.

Sorry! In my brain I had the sentence including
the words _"in Virginia"_. As you know- there is
incredible variation in education from state to
state in the US. I also see gifted kids being left
behind in the current state of affairs. But I'll
spare everyone the details. I'm curious to know
what the impact has been on rates of
homeschooling/charter schooling/private schooling.

Take Care,
Anne

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 15:56:17 -0700
To: klarinet@-----.org
From: o4rmondtoby@-----.net (Ormondtoby Montoya)
Subject: Re: [kl] Education- was: To Dee ----
Message-ID: <6613-44441D11-9541@-----.net>

Anne Bell wrote:

> I'm curious to know what the impact has been
> on rates of homeschooling/charter
> schooling/private schooling.

I don't know the answers to those questions, Anne. Neither do I know
whether schools other than "public" are required to administer the
standardized tests in order to maintain their charters. My experience
is limited to public schools.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 19:32:34 -0400
To: <klarinet@-----.org>
From: "Bill Foss" <billfoss47@-----.net>
Subject: info on "McIntire" clarinet
Message-ID: <002901c66277$346da8f0$0401a8c0@OEMcomputer>

Can anybody give me any information on a "McIntire" fingering system Bb
clarinet ?

I just got one given to me. It appears to be a high quality piece of
workmanship and the tone quality is excellent, but the fingering system
(no
A or G# keys) feels rather strange.

I am just wondering if it is worth saving.

Bill Foss
US Army Retired
USC Aiken, Clarinet Professor
Director of Bands, Aiken Prep

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 16:33:10 -0700
To: klarinet@-----.org
From: Nancy <punkinn@-----.com>
Subject: Re: [kl] info on "McIntire" clarinet
Message-ID:
<3b84ab580604171633q578217c6x6e48e30ce59f6819@-----.com>

Dear Mr. Foss:

Google found this for me:=20
http://www.uark.edu/ua/nc/ClarinetCollections/McIntyre/McIntyreInfo.htm

Looks rather interesting!

Nancy Revelle
Arroyo Grande, CA

On 4/17/06, Bill Foss <billfoss47@-----.net> wrote:
> Can anybody give me any information on a "McIntire" fingering system
Bb
> clarinet ?
>
> I just got one given to me. It appears to be a high quality piece of
> workmanship and the tone quality is excellent, but the fingering
system (=
no
> A or G# keys) feels rather strange.
>
> I am just wondering if it is worth saving.
>
> Bill Foss
> US Army Retired
> USC Aiken, Clarinet Professor
> Director of Bands, Aiken Prep
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> Klarinet is a service of Woodwind.Org, Inc. http://www.woodwind.org
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 00:36:58 +0000
To: klarinet@-----.org
From: "Bruce M" <bmcgar@-----.com>
Subject: RE: [kl] info on "McIntire" clarinet
Message-ID: <BAY104-F10120B43AED9BEDA7135C1D7C40@-----.gbl>

Bill,

I have an old issue of The Clarinet from the '80s with an ad for this.
If
you'll reply to me off list, I'll find it, scan it, and send you a copy.

B

>From: "Bill Foss" <billfoss47@-----.net>
>Reply-To: klarinet@-----.org
>To: <klarinet@-----.org>
>Subject: [kl] info on "McIntire" clarinet
>Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 19:32:34 -0400
>
>Can anybody give me any information on a "McIntire" fingering system Bb

>clarinet ?
>
>I just got one given to me. It appears to be a high quality piece of
>workmanship and the tone quality is excellent, but the fingering system
(no
>A or G# keys) feels rather strange.
>
>I am just wondering if it is worth saving.
>
>Bill Foss
>US Army Retired
>USC Aiken, Clarinet Professor
>Director of Bands, Aiken Prep
>
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------
>Klarinet is a service of Woodwind.Org, Inc. http://www.woodwind.org
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 00:39:00 +0000
To: klarinet@-----.org
From: "Bruce M" <bmcgar@-----.com>
Subject: RE: [kl] info on "McIntire" clarinet
Message-ID: <BAY104-F28FE995866E40115DEC905D7C40@-----.gbl>

Oops. Dueling Send buttons, I think. The Web link gives you more info
than
the ad.

>From: "Bruce M" <bmcgar@-----.com>
>Reply-To: klarinet@-----.org
>To: klarinet@-----.org
>Subject: RE: [kl] info on "McIntire" clarinet
>Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 00:36:58 +0000
>
>Bill,
>
>I have an old issue of The Clarinet from the '80s with an ad for this.
If
>you'll reply to me off list, I'll find it, scan it, and send you a
copy.
>
>B
>
>>From: "Bill Foss" <billfoss47@-----.net>
>>Reply-To: klarinet@-----.org
>>To: <klarinet@-----.org>
>>Subject: [kl] info on "McIntire" clarinet
>>Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 19:32:34 -0400
>>
>>Can anybody give me any information on a "McIntire" fingering system
Bb
>>clarinet ?
>>
>>I just got one given to me. It appears to be a high quality piece of
>>workmanship and the tone quality is excellent, but the fingering
system
>>(no A or G# keys) feels rather strange.
>>
>>I am just wondering if it is worth saving.
>>
>>Bill Foss
>>US Army Retired
>>USC Aiken, Clarinet Professor
>>Director of Bands, Aiken Prep
>>
>>
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------
>>Klarinet is a service of Woodwind.Org, Inc. http://www.woodwind.org
>>
>
>
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------
>Klarinet is a service of Woodwind.Org, Inc. http://www.woodwind.org
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 17:39:54 -0700
To: <klarinet@-----.org>
From: "George Huba" <ghuba@-----.com>
Subject: RE: [kl] info on "McIntire" clarinet
Message-ID: <007701c66280$9d622a30$7301a8c0@-----.LLC>

Nancy, Bill:

I have had several McIntyre clarinets restored in the past year from
different "production runs" and have several sitting around in
unrestored
condition. Overall, the build quality on the instruments appears to be
what
might be characterized as an "intermediate student" horn. The mechanics
are
interesting. McIntyre clarinets were manufactured in both grenadilla and
plastic. This design is probably the clarinet world equivalent to the
old
saying that a camel is a horse designed by a committee.

About 6-9 of these instruments have surfaced for auction on the big site
in
the past year. In unrestored condition they seem to sell for about
$50--$300
US depending upon condition and materials. It costs more to restore them
well than to purchase them.

While these are "fun" to experiment with, none of the ones I have would
be
characterized as something approaching a professional-level clarinet.
Nonetheless, these are the production clarinets that were made from a
rather
"odd" patented design which apparently bankrupted the McIntyre brothers
as
they tried to self-finance production.

I would be interested in knowing if anyone on this list actually ever
played
one of these "seriously." The used ones I have seen appear to originate
from
sources that would tend to indicate that these were primarily given to
young
students, perhaps of those affiliated with the music store of the
McIntyre
brothers in Connecticut.

As an amateur who experiments with odd clarinet designs, this one is one
of
the weirdest ones, and frankly, I would guess that even attempting to
play
around with one these would be pretty frustrating for an accomplished
performer. The Stubbins solution to throat Bb problems did not require
any
relearning of fingerings, the Mazzeo solution required some retraining,
and
the McIntyre solution requires massive retraining. It is easy to see why
this system is a historical oddity.

[Bill, please save it. It may be weird and not playable in any serious
settings, but it is an interesting back alley in the evolution of the
clarinet that perhaps illustrates what happens when you try too hard to
improve a design that is not that far from perfected.]

George

-----Original Message-----
From: Nancy [mailto:punkinn@-----.com]
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 4:33 PM
To: klarinet@-----.org
Subject: Re: [kl] info on "McIntire" clarinet

Dear Mr. Foss:

Google found this for me:
http://www.uark.edu/ua/nc/ClarinetCollections/McIntyre/McIntyreInfo.htm

Looks rather interesting!

Nancy Revelle
Arroyo Grande, CA

On 4/17/06, Bill Foss <billfoss47@-----.net> wrote:
> Can anybody give me any information on a "McIntire" fingering system
Bb
> clarinet ?
>
> I just got one given to me. It appears to be a high quality piece of
> workmanship and the tone quality is excellent, but the fingering
system
(no
> A or G# keys) feels rather strange.
>
> I am just wondering if it is worth saving.
>
> Bill Foss
> US Army Retired
> USC Aiken, Clarinet Professor
> Director of Bands, Aiken Prep
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> Klarinet is a service of Woodwind.Org, Inc. http://www.woodwind.org
>
>

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Klarinet is a service of Woodwind.Org, Inc. http://www.woodwind.org

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 20:25:53 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
To: klarinet@-----.org
From: Nancy Buckman <eefer@-----.net>
Subject: Re: [kl] advice?
Message-ID:
<32204655.1145319953535.JavaMail.root@-----.ne
t>

Hi Lora,

I don't know if anyone replied to your request, but maybe this will
help. Type in your browser window the following:
www.torontomusicians.org. At the right of the screen about half way
down you will see "Search Member Database". Click on it and you should
get a screen that says "Search for Records". There are three boxes.
Ignore the ones asking for first and last name. In the last box type
just "clarinet". You will then get a list of clarinetists in the
Toronto area. Look for David Bourque. He plays with the Toronto
Symphony. I have included his info, just in case you have trouble.
Give him a call and he either can teach you himself or can refer you to
someone he trusts. He doesn't know me, but I have heard him play many
times and he is excellent. Best of luck.

BOURQUE DAVID JOSEPH
SCARBOROUGH (416) 261-5071
CLARINET, BASS/CLARINET, BASS/CLARINET,
B FLAT CONTRABASS/CLARINET, E FLAT
CONTRABASS/BASSET HORN

Nancy

Nancy Buckman
Principal Clarinet/Orchestra AACC
eefer@-----.net

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 18:46:28 -0700 (PDT)
To: klarinet@-----.org
From: Laurence Beckhardt <lbeckhardt@-----.net>
Subject: Re: [kl] advice?
Message-ID: <20060418014628.25619.qmail@-----.com>

David Bourque has a very nice website too; here's a
link to a page:

http://www.davidbourque.ca/inquiries.html

It's not quite clear if he teaches students outside of
his university studio, but perhaps...

His editions of spurious Mozart Partitas are great
too, even if they're not Mozart.

--- Nancy Buckman <eefer@-----.net> wrote:

> Hi Lora,
>
> I don't know if anyone replied to your request, but
> maybe this will help. Type in your browser window
> the following: www.torontomusicians.org. At the
> right of the screen about half way down you will see
> "Search Member Database". Click on it and you
> should get a screen that says "Search for Records".
> There are three boxes. Ignore the ones asking for
> first and last name. In the last box type just
> "clarinet". You will then get a list of
> clarinetists in the Toronto area. Look for David
> Bourque. He plays with the Toronto Symphony. I
> have included his info, just in case you have
> trouble. Give him a call and he either can teach
> you himself or can refer you to someone he trusts.
> He doesn't know me, but I have heard him play many
> times and he is excellent. Best of luck.
>
> BOURQUE DAVID JOSEPH
> SCARBOROUGH (416) 261-5071
> CLARINET, BASS/CLARINET, BASS/CLARINET,
> B FLAT CONTRABASS/CLARINET, E FLAT
> CONTRABASS/BASSET HORN
>
> Nancy
>
>
> Nancy Buckman
> Principal Clarinet/Orchestra AACC
> eefer@-----.net
>
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------
> klarinet-unsubscribe@-----.org,
> klarinet-digest-unsubscribe@-----.org if you get
> the digest.
> klarinet-help@-----.org
> Klarinet is a service of Woodwind.Org, Inc.
> http://www.woodwind.org
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 18:49:47 -0700
To: <klarinet@-----.org>
From: "dnleeson" <dnleeson@-----.net>
Subject: RE: [kl] advice?
Message-ID: <FJEKIMDEOJFJPBKBMDOPGEDEEDAA.dnleeson@-----.net>

The Bourque edition is not of spurious Mozart Partitas but rather
of questionable origin. Spurious means absolutely not genuine.
I did the program notes for the recording and also for the
edition and made a point of distinguishing between works that are
not authentic (spurious) and works that might be authentic, but
cannot be proven to be so.

Dan Leeson
DNLeeson@-----.net

-----Original Message-----
From: Laurence Beckhardt [mailto:lbeckhardt@-----.net]
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 6:46 PM
To: klarinet@-----.org
Subject: Re: [kl] advice?

David Bourque has a very nice website too; here's a
link to a page:

http://www.davidbourque.ca/inquiries.html

It's not quite clear if he teaches students outside of
his university studio, but perhaps...

His editions of spurious Mozart Partitas are great
too, even if they're not Mozart.

--- Nancy Buckman <eefer@-----.net> wrote:

> Hi Lora,
>
> I don't know if anyone replied to your request, but
> maybe this will help. Type in your browser window
> the following: www.torontomusicians.org. At the
> right of the screen about half way down you will see
> "Search Member Database". Click on it and you
> should get a screen that says "Search for Records".
> There are three boxes. Ignore the ones asking for
> first and last name. In the last box type just
> "clarinet". You will then get a list of
> clarinetists in the Toronto area. Look for David
> Bourque. He plays with the Toronto Symphony. I
> have included his info, just in case you have
> trouble. Give him a call and he either can teach
> you himself or can refer you to someone he trusts.
> He doesn't know me, but I have heard him play many
> times and he is excellent. Best of luck.
>
> BOURQUE DAVID JOSEPH
> SCARBOROUGH (416) 261-5071
> CLARINET, BASS/CLARINET, BASS/CLARINET,
> B FLAT CONTRABASS/CLARINET, E FLAT
> CONTRABASS/BASSET HORN
>
> Nancy
>
>
> Nancy Buckman
> Principal Clarinet/Orchestra AACC
> eefer@-----.net
>
>
-----------------------------------------------------------------
--
> klarinet-unsubscribe@-----.org,
> klarinet-digest-unsubscribe@-----.org if you get
> the digest.
> klarinet-help@-----.org
> Klarinet is a service of Woodwind.Org, Inc.
> http://www.woodwind.org
>
>

-----------------------------------------------------------------
--
Klarinet is a service of Woodwind.Org, Inc.
http://www.woodwind.org

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 22:17:38 -0400
To: <klarinet@-----.org>
From: "Dee Flint" <deeflint01@-----.net>
Subject: Re: [kl] Business aspects of music performance & education
Message-ID: <001a01c6628e$43e09e70$6601a8c0@DeeFlint>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne Thompson" <wthompson222@-----.net>
To: <klarinet@-----.org>
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 1:49 PM
Subject: Re: [kl] Business aspects of music performance & education

> Tim Roberts said,
> "I sometimes worried that I possessed absolutely no
> skills that would be of value in a post-nuclear
> apocalypse world, and might be more valued for my
> protein content. He pointed out that the ability to
> play keyboard and clarinet, and the ability to teach
> square dancing, both of which I have, might turn out
> to be in high demand in such a world."
>
> I think this is brilliant! Indeed in a small village
> of hunter-gatherers, 21st century technical skills
> would be useless. Making music and dance would be as
> valuable as ever. And this is relevant to this
> discussion of how to 'educate' children. It's easy
> for so many to assume that Reading, Writing, and
> Arithmetic are fundamental human needs.
>
> Wayne Thompson

However, music is still not a basic skill but a secondary skill. In a
society of hunter/gatherers, the basic skills are hunting, foraging, and

gardening. If we wind up in a post apocalyptic world, you'd better
polish
those skills first.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 19:34:20 -0700
To: <klarinet@-----.org>
From: "Warren Rosenberg" <wrosenberg47@-----.net>
Subject: Re: [kl] Business aspects of music performance & education
Message-ID: <000e01c66290$99d19620$0e1ffea9@-----.net>

I find it perplexing that in a "post-nuclear apocalypse world", those
who
have written warmly thus far regarding the value of "music and dancing",
seem to have no idea of what that hell would be like. Imagine no food,
no
clean water, dead bodies everywhere, and you think we will need
"thinking,
music, and dance skills"? In addition, you're assuming you will be
alive!
Never assume.
Cheers!

>
> > Tim Roberts said,
> > "I sometimes worried that I possessed absolutely no
> > skills that would be of value in a post-nuclear
> > apocalypse world, and might be more valued for my
> > protein content. He pointed out that the ability to
> > play keyboard and clarinet, and the ability to teach
> > square dancing, both of which I have, might turn out
> > to be in high demand in such a world."
> >
> > I think this is brilliant! Indeed in a small village
> > of hunter-gatherers, 21st century technical skills
> > would be useless. Making music and dance would be as
> > valuable as ever. And this is relevant to this
> > discussion of how to 'educate' children. It's easy
> > for so many to assume that Reading, Writing, and
> > Arithmetic are fundamental human needs.
> >
> > Wayne Thompson
>
> However, music is still not a basic skill but a secondary skill. In a
> society of hunter/gatherers, the basic skills are hunting, foraging,
and
> gardening. If we wind up in a post apocalyptic world, you'd better
polish
> those skills first.
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> Klarinet is a service of Woodwind.Org, Inc. http://www.woodwind.org
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 22:19:27 -0700 (PDT)
To: klarinet@-----.org
From: Wayne Thompson <wthompson222@-----.net>
Subject: Re: [kl] Business aspects of music performance & education
Message-ID: <20060418051927.52453.qmail@-----.com>

Warren wrote,
"I find it perplexing that in a "post-nuclear
apocalypse world", those who have written warmly thus
far regarding the value of "music and dancing", seem
to have no idea of what that hell would be like.
Imagine no food, no clean water, dead bodies
everywhere, and you think we will need "thinking,
music, and dance skills"? In addition, you're
assuming you will be alive!
Never assume. Cheers!"

Cheers, indeed, Warren! Allow me to imagine the world
we evolved to be in. Not the very uncomfortable
transitional world we'll really be in for a while if
this 'civilization' we're in comes to the worst.

Dee wrote,
"However, music is still not a basic skill but a
secondary skill. In a society of hunter/gatherers,
the basic skills are hunting, foraging, and gardening.
If we wind up in a post apocalyptic world, you'd
better polish those skills first."

Yes, I understand what you mean. But I don't think
music is really secondary. What I was getting at, is
what people really are and what they teach their
children. Assuming that the people we're talking
about are not impoverished, the children in a
hunting-gathering society would learn to forage and
hunt, and they'd learn to socialize, too. If they're
not starving, I think they'll be singing and dancing
in the evenings. I think music and dance is a primary
human attribute along with talking and toolmaking and
catching rabbits.

Maybe this is a long way from what we need to teach in
schools. Do we teach the current specific toolmaking
skills needed for today's jobs? Or do we teach
broader humanizing traits that will help everyone
retain the culture we have? I don't have a clear
answer to that, but I think that question bears on
what you all have been discussing. Do we bear down
and teach writing and math only, or do we attempt to
teach culture and art, too?

Of course you have all been discussing this current US
program "No Child Left Behind" and whether it is doing
effectively what it purports to be doing.

My strong opinion is that reading, writing, math, art,
music, physical education, shop classes, and even
basic 'good ethics' do all belong in the schools.
It's a giant problem to do all that well. So I dream
of educational reforms that have bigger goals than
NCLB. I do believe that humanizing and civilizing our
children belongs not only in families and religious
communities, but in the public schools, too.

Wayne Thompson

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 22:50:25 -0700
To: klarinet@-----.org
From: Audrey Travis <clr91nt@-----.ca>
Subject: Re: [kl] Business aspects of music performance & education
Message-id: <e1f6ab3932de2f872cb808d00bf7d9dd@-----.ca>

On 17-Apr-06, at 7:34 PM, Warren Rosenberg wrote:

> I find it perplexing that in a "post-nuclear apocalypse world", those
> who
> have written warmly thus far regarding the value of "music and
> dancing",
> seem to have no idea of what that hell would be like. Imagine no
> food, no
> clean water, dead bodies everywhere, and you think we will need
> "thinking,
> music, and dance skills"? In addition, you're assuming you will be
> alive!
> Never assume.
> Cheers!
>
>> Of all the skills mentioned above, in a post apocalypse world,
>> 'thinking' would be the absolute, ultimate requirement for survival.

Audrey

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 23:14:39 -0700
To: klarinet@-----.org
From: o4rmondtoby@-----.net (Ormondtoby Montoya)
Subject: Re: [kl] Business aspects of music performance & education
Message-ID: <18493-444483CF-16083@-----.net>

Wayne Thompson wrote:

> But I don't think music is really secondary.
> What I was getting at, is what people really
> are and what they teach their children.
> Assuming that the people we're talking about
> are not impoverished, the children in a
> hunting-gathering society would learn to
> forage and hunt, and they'd learn to socialize,
> too. If they're not starving, I think they'll be
> singing and dancing in the evenings. I think
> music and dance is a primary human attribute
> along with talking and toolmaking and
> catching rabbits.

Even when primitive populations prepared for war or summoned their gods,
they sang and danced and played instruments. They still do.

> Maybe this is a long way from what we need
> to teach in schools. Do we teach the current
> specific toolmaking skills needed for today's
> jobs? Or do we teach broader humanizing
> traits that will help everyone retain the culture
> we have?

= Well said, Wayne! =

> Of course you have all been discussing this
> current US program "No Child Left Behind"
> and whether it is doing effectively what it
> purports to be doing

....by denying funds and forcing schools to choose which children to
abandon?

> My strong opinion is that reading, writing,
> math, art, music, physical education, shop
> classes, and even basic 'good ethics' do all
> belong in the schools. It's a giant problem to
> do all that well. So I dream of educational
> reforms that have bigger goals than NCLB. I
> do believe that humanizing and civilizing our
> children belongs not only in families and
> religious communities, but in the public
> schools, too

....because, if for no other reason, a significant number of parents and
religious communities fail to do these things unassisted. For example,
why do schools have sex education and sustance abuse courses?

Art is equally an inescapable and necessary part of our existence, a
part of communication, and it deserves attention too.

------------------------------

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