Klarinet Archive - Posting 000334.txt from 2006/01

From: "Rommel John (Rafi Jochanan) Miller" <rjmiller@-----.net>
Subj: Re: [kl] Trust but verify (This is completely off topic) For Warren R.
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 16:54:54 -0500

Oy vey iz mir, oy gevalt even!

What a mess I've made, I was just talking about the ethics of Mr.Abrahmoff,
and yes, I don't think I'd bribe anyone or expect favoritism of any kind in
exchange for a contribution under the table. I mean look at Shylock, he's
the poster-child for all that is greed in this world and that's a stain on
us Jews and it needn't be.

Ever read Robert S. Wistrich's book called "Antisemitism: The Longest
Hatred?" in it he talks about how the Jews have been maligned througout
history as money-grubbing, corrupt misers looking to exploit the gentile at
every chance, and you and I Warren know this to be false to the nth degree.
But we also know that there are as many unethical Jewish business people out
there as there are unethical Gentile business people.

The thing is we Jews have a thing called the 613 Mitzvoth which are found in
the Torah, in the Sefer Bamidbar or book of Numbers, and they give all Jews,
be they Orthodox, Reform, Conservative, Reconstructionist or unaffiliated a
code of ethical living to live by that whether or not they keep kosher or
shomer, they can still be a good and ethical person.

This is what Martin Buber taught me, and this is what was antithetical in
everything that Ronald Regan stood for in my estimation.

We are to love and treat others as we ourselves wish and desire to be
treated, and we are to live the Torah as best we can. We are to be
messengers of peace and lay the groundwork for the coming of the Moshiach,
and we are to be joyous, even in the chaos and despair that surrounds us.

I am not a Chassid, but I respect their way of thinking.

And I have my problems. But I don't hate anyone, I just find fault with
those whose policy is faulty and unethical. It is the way we all should be,
with a critical eye, to question everything, but with an open mind and an
open heart, and never to judge without hearing all the facts, and the facts
are in on Reagan, he wasn't as great a man as people make him out to be.

Shalom,

Rafi Miller
Baltimore, MD

----- Original Message -----
From: "Warren Rosenberg" <wrosenberg47@-----.net>
To: <klarinet@-----.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 4:10 PM
Subject: Re: [kl] Trust but verify (This is completely off topic)DO NOT
READ! :-)

> There's not enough anti-semitism in the whole, frigg'in world already?
You
> have to feel "ashamed to be a Jew" because of Jack Abramhoff??? Yes,
let's
> jump on this new bandwagon and hate the Jews for a new reason: Jack
> Abramhoff!! And keep in mind we're not talking about Sadaam or Hitler
here.
> So the world's not perfect like at your house? In his position, you might
> have done the same thing, and God Forbid, even WORSE!!! And he gave, I
> believe, bribes to people or took them. They were gentiles.
> Do they feel ashamed because of this? No. So why should you?
>
> In your 47 years, don't you find a spectrum of good and bad/evil behavior
in
> ALL people, including yourself? You think people will like you better if
> you use Jack Abramoff to display your self-hatred. They won't. They'll
> hate you and the Jews more.
>
> There's good and bad in everyone, except for a few whose names I won't
> mention! :-)
>
> Go have a nice bowl of chicken soup with a big, matzoh ball.
> You'll feel better. :-) (at least temporarily, and that's good enough for
> me!)
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rommel John (Rafi Jochanan) Miller" <rjmiller@-----.net>
> To: <klarinet@-----.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 12:21 PM
> Subject: Re: [kl] Trust but verify (This is completely off topic)
>
>
> > Its funny, but even though I am 47, been in the Navy suffered a nervous
> > breakdown from the abuse and harrassment of my fellow "shipmates"
> (probably
> > becasue I was in the wrong rate and in at the wrong time [76-79]) I
still
> > beleive that Buber said it right, and he my friends lived through the
most
> > horrific of times, the Holocaust.
> >
> > While Ronny Ray-gun was playing cowboy on the silver screen. And let's
> not
> > forget that Mr. Reagan's regulations led us into the quagmire of
> low-paying
> > jobs and off-shore and out-sourced jobs today, of the decline of
american
> > industry through the dissolution of the union and an ethical working
wage.
> > And let us not forget how close we truly did come to nuclear
annihilation
> in
> > 1982 and 1983 when Mr. Reagan was so loose and haphazzard with his words
> as
> > to say (thinking the microphones to be off) "ok boys, we start dropping
> the
> > nukes on Moscow in five minutes" or something like that. What a
diplomat,
> > what patriot, what an utter beginning to the real declination in
American
> > values and ethics. For from Reagan rose Enron, from his regegulation
rose
> > corporate giants like Wal-Mart and Interstate Bank which gobbled up the
> mom
> > and pop little guys. From Reagan came people like Jack Abrahmoff the
most
> > unethical Jew since Shylock. And a man who makes me ashamed to be a
Jew,
> > but proud that I am an ethical and hopeful Jew, not a cynical one.
> >
> > I might be mentally ill dear friends, but I have a great deal of
learning
> > beween these ears of mine and I have lived through Carter, Reagan, two
> > Bush's, a Clinton and hopefully another Clinton. And I tell you, I'd
> rather
> > that Jimmy Carter return to the White House than have what's in there
now,
> > for there was and is a man of ethical courage.
> >
> > I am sorry for this diatribe, but the santification of Ronald Reagan
> bothers
> > the heck out of me, especially when you consider that he did more the
> create
> > and distance the poverty gap in this country and dismantle the mental
> health
> > system. It took Bill Clinton and the work of Tipper Gore to bring the
> > emphasis of mental illness awareness back to the forefront in the
1990's,
> > and let's not forget that.
> >
> > I am a 100% service connected disabled veteran, I was ready and willing
to
> > die for this country at a time when it was the worst thing to do, and my
> > only sibling my brother was killed in Vietnam, and my father was a WWII
> > veteran, so you can't say I'm not patriotic. I have seen life from the
> > inside, and it ain't all that grand, especially aboard ship, and with a
> > bunch of guys who had the choice of either going to jail or going into
the
> > service. And its no wonder the Veterans Medical Centers are
overburdened.
> >
> > Rafi Miller
> > Baltimore, MD
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Warren Rosenberg" <wrosenberg47@-----.net>
> > To: <klarinet@-----.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 2:48 PM
> > Subject: [kl] Trust but verify
> >
> >
> > > Yep! Pardner!
> > >
> > > I don't have the time right now to look up the exact Reagan quote
> > regarding
> > > the verification procedures of the Soviet Union's nuclear missle
> > inventory,
> > > but President Reagan exclaimed "Trust, but verify" to those skeptics,
> > > non-believers, spoilsports and the rest who desired to take the Soviet
> > Union
> > > at its word. (If there was ever a time, contrary to Martin Buber,
> > according
> > > to Rafi in his previous post, that one should "verify", it would be
in
> > > global political negotiations where the lives of millions would be at
> > stake.
> > > Don't you think so, Rafi?)
> > >
> > > That's the first time I heard the expression which seems quite
> reasonable.
> > > Rafi, as one gets older, one learns that the seller sometimes tells
you
> > > something that isn't true. This has actually happened to ME! Some
call
> > > this a "maturation" process.
> > >
> > > When young, one can live in a dream world or a fantasy which is lovely
> (as
> > > long as money isn't involved). It's interesting that as an example
you
> > > choose clarinet playing vs. say, believing everything your seller's
> > realtor
> > > might tell you. "Once burned, twice shy" is a proverb I heard
> somewhere.
> > I
> > > don't know it in standard business Russian, but there's wisdom in it.
> > >
> > > Just curious. What statement in "I and Thou" would be relevant to
being
> > > somewhat skeptical in daily life?
> > >
> > > I'll try to get out to the Reagan Museum some time soon and capture
the
> > > document for you! :-)
> > > After spending this much time writing, my curiosity got the better of
> me.
> > > Google, "trust but verify." You'll find the quote attributed to
Ronald
> > > Reagan, a favorite on this list!
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Forest Aten" <forestaten@-----.net>
> > > To: <klarinet@-----.org>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 10:44 AM
> > > Subject: RE: [kl] new Mozart finds
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > I thought it was a clever, original thought of Ronald Reagan.
> > > >
> > > > Ronald Reagan?????
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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