Klarinet Archive - Posting 000052.txt from 2006/01

From: "Joseph H. Fasel" <jhf@-----.gov>
Subj: RE: [kl] Gran Partitttta (K. 361)
Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 12:21:11 -0500

Dan,

I think you missed what I said, which is that it's a bit like a Baroque
cadenza, which should be short. ("Executed on one breath" is the rule
of thumb I was taught as a singer.)

I think I must already owe you several pizzas.

Cheers,
--Joe

On Thu, 2006-01-05 at 10:10, dnleeson wrote:
> No. I would not agree with that at all.
>
> A cadenza is of some length, perhaps a few minutes. Beethoven's
> cadenzas can often be close 5 minutes. And Ibert, who wrote a
> cadenza for K. 622 (what a putz!) has one that is close to 7
> minutes.
>
> An Eingang is short. If it is longer than 10-15 seconds, it's
> too long.
>
> The purpose of a cadenza is utterly different from that of an
> Eingang. Not only does a cadenza have to resolve the ambiguity
> of a tonic chord in the second inversion and get it to a tonic
> chord in the root position, but it must do so through the
> mechanism of creation a brief improvise3d composition made up
> almost entirely of the principle themes of the movement that you
> have been listening to.
>
> The purpose of a cadenza is to ease the transition from one
> section to another.
>
> Instruments that do not have the ability to create harmony have
> limited opportunities for cadenzas.
>
> Eingänge can be played on a kazoo.
>
> The only similarity between the cadenza and the Eingang is that
> both occur when there is a fermata.
>
> An explanation like this has to be at least a 5-pizza lecture.
>
>
> Dan Leeson
> DNLeeson@-----.net
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joseph H. Fasel [mailto:jhf@-----.gov]
> Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 8:18 AM
> To: klarinet@-----.org
> Subject: RE: [kl] Gran Partitttta (K. 361)
>
>
> Dan,
>
> To say that it is "nothing like a cadenza in the slightest" is a
> bit
> over the top, IMHO. Perhaps you mean to say, as Douglas Adams
> might
> have, that an eingang is almost, but not quite, exactly unlike a
> cadenza. ;-)
>
> Like a cadenza, it a place where an embellishment or
> improvisation is
> called for at a particular kind of harmonic transition. Like a
> typical
> Baroque cadenza, it should be brief (as is not generally the case
> for a
> late Classical cadenza). I think you've taught me, though, that
> an
> eingang shouldn't be overly elaborate or showy, as a cadenza
> (Baroque or
> later) often is. And of course, the structures of the two kinds
> of
> embellishments will be quite different because of the difference
> in the
> kinds of harmonic transitions they mark.
>
> Would you agree with that?
>
> Cheers,
> --Joe
>
> On Wed, 2006-01-04 at 13:35, dnleeson wrote:
> > It is nothing like a cadenza in the slightest. The musicians
> cut
> > off and the party who plays the eingang does it alone. It's
> > short, not fancy, and if it is longer than 10-15 seconds,
> that's
> > to long. It ends either on the 7th or the 2nd of scale so that
> > it can LEAD IN to the tonic note.
> >
> > Repeat after me: IT IS NOT LIKE A CADENZA,
> > IT IS NOT LIKE A CADENZA,
> > IT IS NOT LIKE A CADENZA,
> > IT IS NOT LIKE A CADENZA,
> > IT IS NOT LIKE A CADENZA,
> > IT IS NOT LIKE A CADENZA,
> > IT IS NOT LIKE A CADENZA.
> >
> > And it can be found in almost all chamber must from the last
> half
> > of the 18th century. You have not been listening carefully.
> And
> > I still get a pizza.
>
>
>
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