Klarinet Archive - Posting 000337.txt from 2005/11

From: Oliver Seely <oseely@-----.edu>
Subj: [kl] Re: Mahler, et. al.
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 11:48:57 -0500

My experience of teaching a diverse university student body all these
years is that students want very much, and on occasion will demand,
to be identified first and foremost as themselves and then perhaps
some distance from that, near or far, will identify themselves as a
member of some group.

Migration of identity can take place quickly or over a
lifetime. Immigrants to the U.S. have been known to forbid their
children to speak the language of the old country because they are
"now Americans," whereas others cling to the language and customs of
the old country.

My brother-in-law's grandparents were orthodox Ashkenazi Jews. His
parents were conservative. He said on many occasions that the words
he had to speak for his bar mitzvah meant nothing to him and over his
lifetime he migrated to something else -- his own identity, which
gave him his own personal and unique character: not exactly Jewish,
certainly not any other religion, just my favorite brother-in-law Herb.

My son-in-law's family immigrated to the U.S. from a Sephardic
community in Tunisia via Israel. Are they Jewish? Well, yes,
indeed. Maybe. Somewhat. But they identify themselves very
personally as a family and as individuals first and members of a
group at some distance from that.

An African American student I had many years ago came to me for
academic counselling on his Chemistry major. I said in passing that
I was sorry there weren't any faculty members of "his group." He
became angry and said that he wasn't at all interested in speaking to
anyone from "his group," but that he wanted to know something about
what it meant to be a chemist. That was the last time I let that
phrase slip through my lips.

If Mahler or Mendelssohn or Bruch said of themselves that they were
Jewish, I figure that would be my criterion for their
identification. If they said they were something else, then I would
take that at face value, and to hell with all the rabbis, priests,
ministers and shamans of the world. In my opinion their opinions
aren't worth diddly squat as regards others' identities.

Oliver

At 07:41 PM 11/22/2005, you wrote:
>Dan, the believe that conversion or baptism doesn't count in terms of being
>Jewish is actually the standard point of view of rabbinical wisdom. Hence I
>wouldn't call it racist. It dates back to a time, when many Jews were, alas!
>forced by the christians and other cretins to converse (cf. Muranos etc).
>Hence the rabbis decided that, even though baptism might be disgusting and
>deliberate conversion a sign of mental impediment, it is just totally
>irrelevant in terms of the person's obligations derived from the mizwot
>burdened upon the chosen people. Baptism is thus not recognized as a
>religious act at all but one of profanity like many other silly acts
>committed by Jews on a daily basis.
>Moreover: "The baptismal process is instantaneous and permanent" -- how
>about circumcision and Bar Mizwa? Why should those rites be "washed away" by
>another one of much more dubious character?
>
>Shalom,
>danyel

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