Klarinet Archive - Posting 000145.txt from 2005/11

From: "dnleeson" <dnleeson@-----.net>
Subj: RE: [kl] Conversion
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2005 13:08:09 -0500

Montoya write: "We can say that VPO's performance of Mahler's
"Titan" suggests some questions which eventually lead us to
unresolvable questions about Mahler's religion."

This is absolutely indefensible. Are you suggesting that a
person's religious affiliation (not cultural affiliation) can be
discerned through his music? Is Bach's music Catholic? Is
Offenbach's "Tales of Hoffman" Jewish? Is John Cage's music
Lutheran? Is Dixieland Jazz black in any racial sense?

Come on. That was a belief of National Socialism. They
discarded music of many composers and the artwork of many artists
because it was considered to contain racial elements that were
inappropriate. There was a poster that showed a racially bigoted
view of several black musicians playing jazz. Every sterotype was
present: oversized lips, moronic faces, etc. That is the far
extent of what you propose, namely that music can contain
undesirable elements that are automatically transmitted by people
of low racial values.

Dan Leeson
DNLeeson@-----.net

-----Original Message-----
From: Ormondtoby Montoya [mailto:or3mondtoby@-----.net]
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 8:58 AM
To: klarinet@-----.org
Subject: RE: [kl] Conversion

Dan wrote:

> Since it is entirely impossible to know with
> certainty what Mahler's mindset was at the
> time of his conversion, then we must assume,
> because of the gravity of the act, that he
> converted for religious reasons.

I don't object to 'driving a nail' into the threat of a
prejudice. Not
at all.

But if logic is to be our guideline, and if we don't know the
answer,
then we should not assume the answer. We should say that there
is no
sound basis for a conclusion.

Unwarranted assumptions are not the definition of "prejudice" ---
a flaw
in logic can be a mistake rather than a prejudice --- but many
prejudices cannot exist without an unwarranted assumption. Thus
unwarranted assumptions are especially slippery slopes when
discussing
prejudice itself.

We can say that VPO's performance of Mahler's "Titan" suggests
some
questions which eventually lead us to unresolvable questions
about
Mahler's religion.

....and if logic is to be our guideline, an inevitable (and
unresolvable) question is:

Would VPO bless and support a *women-only* branch of their
orchestra
which also pays the highest salaries, precisely because such an
orchestra could produce a different music which the men-only
orchestra
cannot produce? Or would they claim that such an orchestra
could
produce only inferior music?

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