Klarinet Archive - Posting 000140.txt from 2005/11

From: "dnleeson" <dnleeson@-----.net>
Subj: RE: [kl] Conversion
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2005 10:17:37 -0500

Since it is entirely impossible to know with certainty what
Mahler's mindset was at the time of his conversion, then we must
assume, because of the gravity of the act, that he converted for
religious reasons. And certainly, from the Catholic point of
view, a baptism is irrevocable.

So what I'm suggesting is that Mahler's mindset is not relevant,
and the changeability of his thought processes does not (do not?)
change a thing. Mahler should not be referred to as Jewish. He
gave that up and separated himself from that. To suggest that he
was of Jewish heritage is entirely correct. But Mahler was a
Catholic and dancing around the subtleties of the process does
not resolve the issue.

Let me give you one example of how this kind of dancing can be
used. I was at a conference on Wagner, and the subject of his
bigotry came up. (I did not bring it up.) The chairperson of the
conference defended Wagner saying that he could not have been a
bigot because he liked and even conducted the music of
Mendelssohn.

It was at that point that I interrupted, reminding the conference
chairperson that Mendelssohn was a Lutheran Protestant. I was
told that this was only a superficial view and that everyone knew
Mendelssohn's religion.

See. It can get ugly. And this idea that a person's religion is
carried in his/her genetic structure is one that so hateful and
prejudicial that it has to have a nail hammered into it whenever
it arises, even when it is a benign and innocent suggestion.

Dan Leeson
DNLeeson@-----.net

-----Original Message-----
From: Matthew Lloyd [mailto:matthew@-----.uk]
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 2:12 AM
To: Clarinet List
Subject: [kl] Conversion

It is possible to convert for political and not religious
reasons. I
would cite John Donne as an example.

Whether Mahler converted for political or religious reasons isn't
something that has been gone into in depth. But if it is
political, then
surely his thought processes will be unchanged and his belief
system
remain as it was - at least inside of him.

Certainly the same can be said of John Donne.

One can be one thing and make out to the world that one is
something
else. And if that is the situation that someone is suggesting for
Mahler, then his previous religion is relevant.

I'd argue anyone's early belief system was relevant to
understanding
him. Were I to become a "believer" now, surely my 39 years of
atheism
would affect my view of my new religion?

Matthew

PS - If you prefer, think of an oboist who learnt the clarinet.
Would
they not approach it in a slightly different way, and would the
previous
instrument learnt be relevant?

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