Klarinet Archive - Posting 000130.txt from 2005/11

From: William Kelly <kell0786@-----.edu>
Subj: Re: FW: [kl] The Vienna Philharmonic and Women -- Bad News
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 20:40:09 -0500

I find your comments ill-considered for the following reasons:
1) As Dan pointed out, you're interjecting with a consideration far removed
from the basic level of allowing women employment in an orchestra.
2) Of far more importance, your assesment of "most men" is absurd. Most
men, in fact, all of the men I know, do not fit your description. Perhaps I
simply move in more elevated circles than you. Perhaps you live in a
Cro-Magnon community. Nevertheless, to say these things of "most men" or
even "many men" (which assumes a significant percentage) is rediculous.
3) My mother always taught me to doubt the sincerity of those who are so
quick to loudly declare their own innocence or righteousness. Especially
when they go about denegrating large numbers of other people while they're
at it.
4) Your use of obscenity is not warranted, and I join the large number of
folks on this list who object. To clear up some of the nonsense: No, of
course you wouldn't say that two horses "make love." But neither would you
say that they f---. And yes, all intelligent people know that there is no
constitutional right to not be offended, as Captain Obvious pointed out,
but that has nothing to do with the desire to encourage civil means of
expression in a public forum. Nor does it allow for a removal of limits to
what people can do and say in public. But I'm not on this list to explain
the Constitution to people. The idea of "shock-value" is a denegration of
language, as it seeks to intimidate some and arouse others; to appeal to
people's fears and to their aggressiveness, not the their intellects, and
as such out not to be considered a healthy or legitimate use of language.
As things stand, profane language, whatever it's expressive capactiy, is to
many of us very distasteful, uncivil and innapropriate, and we will simply
continue to complain should folks persist in this. The sad part is, I seem
to recall this conversation happening here before.

> Me too; but in my experience, most men don't. They like fucking women,
> and they like having women around to be objects of aesthetic beauty, and
> they like women who act as amplifiers for their own ego, etc. etc. etc.,
> but take a woman who actually wants to be treated as a *proper human
> being* and many men find that quite scary.
>
> Their loss, methinks. :-)
>
>
>
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