Klarinet Archive - Posting 000234.txt from 2005/09

From: "Bill Daniluk" <bdaniluk@-----.net>
Subj: RE: [kl] Pinky again
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 14:47:16 -0400

Actually, the 'f' in five and the German equivalent is the same as the =
'p'
in Pyat', Penki, etc., per Grimm's law (viz., pater->father). If I knew =
my
linguistic transformations better, the labio-velar ('qu') in Latin might =
be
the same. Note the attached etymologies of 'five' and 'finger' - PIE is
Proto-indoeuropean, the postulated ancestor language of the slavic,
germanic, and romance languages.
BD
=20

five =20
O.E. fif, from P.Gmc. *fimfe (cf. O.S. fif, O.N. fimm, O.H.G. funf, =
Goth.
fimf), from PIE *pengke (cf. Skt. panca, Gk. pente, L. quinque, O.C.S. =
peti,
Lith. penke, O.Welsh pimp). =20

Finger: (Old English) Widespread among the Germanic languages (German,
Swedish and Danish all have finger, and Dutch vinger), finger is not =
found
in any other branch of Indo-European. It is usually referred to a
prehistoric Indo-European ancestor pengkr=F3s 'number of five', a =
derivative
(like fist) of pengke 'five'.=20

-----Original Message-----
From: Lelia Loban [mailto:lelialoban@-----.net]=20
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 1:04 PM
To: klarinet@-----.org
Subject: [kl] Pinky again

>My wife, who is beginning a conversation course in Lithuanian, started=20
>by memorising the numbers. So as an exercise, I asked her to tell me=20
>what our telephone number was in Lithuanian, and thereby learned that=20
>the Lithuanian for 5 is 'penki'. (Fits with the 'penta-'
>prefix, a connection that didn't get made when we discussed it.)

Well, I'll be dipped. The things one can learn on this list! Never
occurred to me that we say "pinkie" for a genuine *reason* that *makes
sense*.=20
:-)
=20
Should have occurred to me, too, since I live near the Pentagon; =
although,
in the Romance languages (at least in Spanish, Italian and French), the
words for "fifth" don't follow the "penta" model, and instead derive =
from
"quinta" in Latin. In Germanic languages, as in English, the words for
"fifth" come from "f=FCnf" (hope Earthlink doesn't mutilate the second =
letter,
which should be u with umlaut).=20

Not all of the Slavic languages follow the Lithuanian, which is probably
just as well, since in Czech, "fifth" is "p=E1ty" (if EarthLink =
mutilates the
ASCII text, the second letter should come out as an "a" with an acute =
accent
and the fourth letter as a "y" with acute accent). It's pronounced just
similarly enough to a familiar word in English that I'm sure grade =
school
kids would never be able to resist saying "potty-finger," with all of =
its
most unfortunate associations, if our word for the fifth finger had come
from Czech....

Thanks for the information, Tony.

Lelia Loban

-------------------------------------------------------------------
klarinet-owner@-----.
http://www.woodwind.org

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Klarinet is a service of Woodwind.Org, Inc. http://www.woodwind.org

   
     Copyright © Woodwind.Org, Inc. All Rights Reserved    Privacy Policy    Contact charette@woodwind.org