Klarinet Archive - Posting 000160.txt from 2005/06

From: "Julianne Kirk" <julianne2000@-----.com>
Subj: Re: [kl] DMA vs. PhD
Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 19:57:00 -0400

I also find this thread interesting and wanted to respond to Antione's
posting. I am at the end of my DMA, I'm taking my qualifying exams tomorrow
and then will be moving to Indiana to take my first position as visiting
professor for next year.

The DMA was a wonderful opportunity for me to grow not only in my academic
skills but I was able to have a little more time to polish my playing and
feel that I'm twice the player I was at the end of my Masters degree. A DMA
is a lot of work and upon completion you can really feel like you are more
versatile. Again - there are millions of great players out there without
degrees, but as Antoine points out, the job market is getting smaller. I
love teaching and playing, I always have coming from a family of music
educators but I also have a passion to play. Both worlds are possible and I
decided to go on and pursue my education to the highest level possible, I'm
pleased to say - it has paid off in the best way - I have my first job.
Along the way I have been able to have a lot of experience teaching at
community music schools and methods classes at the conservatory level.

The DMA is a wonderful period of time for anyone who pursues it to increase
their knowledge of not just the clarinet but all of music, as well as polish
both playing and teaching skills to the highest level. After all that
concentration - hopefully a person can land a job either teaching or playing
- ideally both. The degree is a lot of time and hard work though, I won't
lie about that!

I'll be back in a couple days (quailfying exams are 2 days long) but I
really find this thread interesting and hope to hear more insights from
those who have DMAs and have been in the field for a while. What trends have
appeared in your various universities? My impression is most would rather
hire someone with a DMA for a tenured position over someone who has held
down an orchestral position but does not have a degree. There are obviously
major exceptions to that pending on the stature of the player and their
orchestral experience. An applied professor after all has to be proficient
on the instrument.

Julianne Kirk

DMA Candidate - Eastman School of Music
MM - Eastman School of Music
BM - University of Oklahoma

>From: "Antoine T. Clark" <trioarioso@-----.net>
>Reply-To: klarinet@-----.org
>To: <klarinet@-----.org>
>Subject: Re: [kl] DMA vs. PhD
>Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 17:37:30 -0400
>
>I find this thread to be very interesting! I am starting my DMA in the Fall
>at Ohio State on Full Fellowship. This scholarship was given to me based on
>my academic abilities. However, James Pyne had to feel that I was a
>valuable and worthy musician to even recommend me for this fellowship. I
>agree that it seems that players that develop rather early in our craft may
>win orchestral positions. I have even met players who started their DMA or
>Masters and then won a position in an orchestra. An example of this is Greg
>Williams of the Kansas City Symphony. He pursued his DMA until he was able
>to win a job. I think he was happy to win a job before finishing school
>mainly because he wanted to be an orchestral player. Who wouldn't want to
>get out of school and make money in something they love. I know for me that
>I don't feel less of a person because I haven't won a major job in an
>orchestra yet. I have met and know countless individuals who have not won a
>job and are fantastic players. We just don't have the job market like other
>professions. So in my case I want to get my DMA to make me more versatile
>in the field. I would love to win a job after finishing my DMA and I want
>to be a college professor after getting my DMA. I have a friend who has a
>DMA and is a principal clarinetist of a regional orchestra but has not been
>able to land a teaching job yet. I think it is a bad generalization to say
>that people who get there DMA may be less of a player then people who win
>jobs right out of undergrad or graduate school. How many players do you
>know who can play their butts off but could not tell you about the
>development of the clarinet or who wrote the earliest concertos for the
>instrument? I think being an versatile musician is beneficial. I hope to
>have that college job while playing in the local orchestra. One last point.
>Some of us need more time to develop. I can tell you that I am sometimes
>amazed at how far I have come since undergrad. I am African-American decent
>and did not have the privilege of private lessons until I got to college.
>There I had to play catch up and believe me I have. I am very proud of my
>growth and I welcome the chance to go back to school to continue to
>strengthen my skills. So DMA or not I will progress to be the fine musician
>that I am capable of.
>
>Antoine Clark
>Adjunct Professor of Woodwinds
>Randolph Macon Woman's College
>Principal Clarinetist Ashlawn Opera Festival
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce M" <bmcgar@-----.com>
>To: <klarinet@-----.org>
>Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 11:09 PM
>Subject: Re: [kl] DMA vs. PhD
>
>
>>
>>Fernando,
>>
>>I never suggested that a person WITH a DMA couldn't be an excellent
>>player. The point is that it isn't the DMA that MAKES an excellent player
>>(or, especially, teacher), yet more and more we hear of the DMA as a
>>credential that opens the doors to auditions and teaching.
>>
>>There's a parallel in my own former profession, technical communications:
>>Business people don't know how to evaluate good technical communications,
>>so they rely on what they do know: programming courses, networking
>>certifications, technical coursework. Consequently, what needs to be
>>evaluated isn't evaluted because the people making the decisions don't
>>know how to evaluate it. They fall back on what they know.
>>
>>The same thing goes with music: Many of the very people who have to make
>>the decisions about who performs or who teaches don't know music and don't
>>know the instruments. (Hell, lots of people writing for the clarinet these
>>days don't even seem to know what the usable range of the instrument is.)
>>Therefore, they rely on credentials, which may or may not give a true
>>perspective of playing and teaching ability, rather than learn what they
>>need to know to make the best choice.
>>
>>By the way, I got one of the top jobs in technical communications in the
>>computer manufacturing business, not because I was very good at what I
>>did, but because I had a master's degree in the field, so I was a
>>beneficiary of the very practice that I hate; the degree opened doors for
>>me that were not open for others. But I'm not so blind as to know that
>>there are people out there who really know their stuff, but who don't have
>>fancy credentials, and I made it a practice of never choosing interviewees
>>based on their degrees BEFORE looking at their work samples.
>>
>>I wonder how many top-notch players who are starting out have been nixed
>>by selection committees in favor of degreed people who couldn't play their
>>way out of a paper bag.
>>
>>Seems as if it's getting to the point that we'll all have to have a degree
>>just to blow our noses.
>>
>>>From: "Fernando Silveira" <fernandounirio@-----.com>
>>>Reply-To: klarinet@-----.org
>>>To: <klarinet@-----.org>
>>>Subject: Re: [kl] DMA vs. PhD
>>>Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 23:18:30 -0300
>>>
>>>Hi Dan.
>>>I agree with you but you can not generalize.
>>>There is excelet clarinet players with DMA in USA and all over the world.
>>>
>>>Best
>>>
>>>Fernando Silveira
>>>Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "dnleeson" <dnleeson@-----.net>
>>>To: <klarinet@-----.org>
>>>Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 10:53 PM
>>>Subject: RE: [kl] DMA vs. PhD
>>>
>>>
>>>>You are touching on a very sensitive problem. One of the
>>>>difficulties of a DMA is that there are varying standards. Thus a
>>>>DMA from a school with weak standards could result in giving an
>>>>inferior player a level of authority that s/he does not really
>>>>have. While a DMA from a school with higher standards can
>>>>produce a student who can compete anywhere.
>>>>
>>>>I have read dissertations from some students who received a
>>>>doctorate of music, and my opinions of some (opinions that were
>>>>not solicited, I assure you) was that I would not want that
>>>>person to teach my dog about playing music, so inadequate was
>>>>his/her written communication skills, his/her knowledge of the
>>>>subject, and his/her ability to do serious research. Many of the
>>>>dissertations that I have read border on a college senior's B
>>>>term paper.
>>>>
>>>>There are very few professional players in the major symphonies
>>>>of America with advanced degrees, though some have attained a
>>>>bachelor's degree, but fewer a master's degree. Is there a single
>>>>principle player in America with a DMA? Some have no degrees at
>>>>all, which is unfortunate because their music history knowledge
>>>>is often inadequate. But they can play!!! Wow, can they play.
>>>>
>>>>This has given rise to two armed camps, namely the professional
>>>>performers on one hand and the academics on the other, with each
>>>>seriously mistrusting the other.
>>>>
>>>>It is a situation that is going to be with us for a long time.
>>>>
>>>>Dan Leeson
>>>>DNLeeson@-----.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: Bruce M [mailto:bmcgar@-----.com]
>>>>Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 6:34 PM
>>>>To: klarinet@-----.org
>>>>Subject: RE: [kl] DMA vs. PhD
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Re. DMA:
>>>>
>>>>Used to be that you had to play excellently. Now you have to have
>>>>a piece of
>>>>paper that says that you do.
>>>>
>>>>"You can't choose her over me! *I* have a DMA, and she doesn't!"
>>>>
>>>>That's advancement for you.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>--
>>>>Klarinet is a service of Woodwind.Org, Inc.
>>>>http://www.woodwind.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
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>
>
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