Klarinet Archive - Posting 000346.txt from 2005/02

From: "sarah elbaz" <sarah@-----.com>
Subj: RE: [kl] composer's intentions
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 08:19:08 -0500

Dan,
In your first answer I suspecred that your point is : My English is better then your and therefor I am right.
Now I am sure that this is your point and I think that its very ugly. Would you like to have this debat in Hebrew?
In Arabic? In French?
I am sorry- my English is not as good as yours.
sarah

-------Original Message-------
> From: "dnleeson" <dnleeson@-----.net>
> Subject: RE: [kl] composer's intentions
> Sent: 22 Feb 2005 20:51:11
>
> Sarah, what you are now doing is just digging a deeper hole.
> What you said was in defense of a questionable thesis, namely
> that these kinds of arrangements are good for everyone.  And in
> defense of that thesis, and as evidence of its truth, that the
> Beethoven transcription was brilliant.  You did that solely to
> imply that such brilliance allows and even justifies such acts.
>
> You were not offering an opinion as it applied to you, which you
> certainly have a right to do.  Instead you put forward that
> opinion as sustaining a questionable practice (at least
> questionable in my eyes). The exact words you used were, "Have
> you heard the Beethoven violin concerto played on the clarinet?
> The idea is so brilliant!"
>
> I for one do not think so.  I think it is a lousy idea.  But who
> is right about the value of the idea is not the point.  You made
> your point as if it were a mathematical postulate, whose truth
> did not have to be established.  And you made that point entirely
> in support of the (to me) too frequent practice of ignoring what
> the composer explicitly requested.
>
> You then go on, to shout at me, "BUT WHAT  MY EARS TELL ME IS THE
> MOST IMPORTANT ARGUMENT!"  That statement is seriously
> incomplete.  I do hope you meant, "BUT WHAT  MY EARS TELL ME IS
> THE MOST IMPORTANT ARGUMENT to me."  Are you seriously suggesting
> that what your ears tell you what is (or should be) the most
> important argument for everyone?
>
> You have generalized yourself to the point where you have become
> a self-made authority on what is good, or bad, or right, or wrong
> inmusic. And with respect, you are authorized to hold those views
> only for yourself.
>
> Believe and do what you wish.  But don't tell me that what you do
> is good because you are doing it.
>
> Dan Leeson
> DNLeeson@-----.net
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sarah elbaz [mailto:sarah@-----.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 12:23 PM
> To: klarinet@-----.org
> Subject: RE: [kl] composer's intentions
>
>
> Dan,
> MY OPINION is that the Beethoven violin concerto on the clarinet
> is a brilliant idea, and the recording of Michael
> Collins is brilliant too.  I don't need to hear other peoples
> opinion to know what to think .  Knowledge of musical
> hiostory is very important - BUT WHAT  MY EARS TELL ME IS THE
> MOST IMPORTANT ARGUMENT !
> AND MY MUSICAL COMMON SENSE IS MY EARS BEACAUSE I MAKE MUSIC WITH
> NOTES AND NOT WITH WORDS!
> Sarah
>
>
> -------Original Message-------
> > From: "dnleeson" <dnleeson@-----.net>
> > Subject: RE: [kl] composer's intentions
> > Sent: 22 Feb 2005 16:59:13
> >
> >  Sarah you are in no position to assert what Mozart and
> Beethoven
> >  would and would not mind.  That tired old argument is used for
> >  anything: "If Mozart had had a [fill in the blank] he
> certainly
> >  would have used one."
> >
> >  And your Rampal argument shows a lack of knowledge of musical
> >  history.  At the time of the publication of the first edition
> of
> >  the Mozart clarinet concerto in 1801, there was also a
> >  publication of the same work for a flute.  So Rampal did not
> >  suddenly decide to do the work on his instrument.  It was
> decided
> >  for him 2 centuries earlier.  So do no think that Rampal's
> action
> >  was synonymous with your assertion about how this shows him to
> >  have been a forward thinker.
> >
> >  The bottom line is that you can justify anything with this
> free
> >  swinging assertion about the importance of being open minded
> and
> >  full of imagination.  It is a bankrupt, decrepit, and
> worthless
> >  argument and it does not cash at any bank.
> >
> >  And how do you know that the Beethoven violin concerto played
> on
> >  a clarinet is brilliant?  Did you take a vote on it or are you
> >  expressing the opinions of lots of other people? The fact that
> >  you may like something does not necessarily make it brilliant.
> >  Instead, it may show the opposite; i.e., it could reflect
> >  negatively on your taste.
> >
> >  These discussions to justify the unjustifiable are like
> >  corkscrews that turn on themselves and dig us into the ground.
> >  Count me out of further defenses of what is nothing more than
> >  musical common sense.
> >
> >  Dan Leeson
> >  DNLeeson@-----.net
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  -----Original Message-----
> >  From: sarah elbaz [mailto:sarah@-----.com]
> >  Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 8:29 AM
> >  To: klarinet@-----.org
> >  Subject: RE: [kl] composer's intentions
> >
> >
> >  Performers should be open minded and full of imagination and
> try
> >  everything.  The only way to know if an arrangement works is
> to
> >  play it.  Have you heard the Beethoven violin concerto played
> on
> >  the clarinet?
> >  The idea is so brilliant!  Also Rampal played the clarinet
> >  concerto by Mozart.
> >  I think that Mozart and Beethoven wouldn't mind a good
> >  performance.
> >  Sarah Elbaz
> >
> >
> >  -------Original Message-------
> >  > From: "dnleeson" <dnleeson@-----.net>
> >  > Subject: RE: [kl] composer's intentions
> >  > Sent: 22 Feb 2005 16:12:56
> >  >
> >  >  I don't know the answer to your question: "What about the
> many
> >  >  clear cases of compsoers rearranging pieces themselves?"
> >  >
> >  >  OK, then.  What about them?
> >  >
> >  >  Does that mean that if Hindemith authorized something to be
> >  done
> >  >  on his bassoon sonata, that justifies you or me or my uncle
> >  max
> >  >  using an accordion in a Mozart piano sonata under the
> >  assertion
> >  >  that "If he had an accordion, he would have used
> one."  That's
> >  >  chancy history.
> >  >
> >  >  Are there no limitations to the arbitrary alteration of
> >  someone
> >  >  else's work?  Can I draw a moustache on the Venus di Milo
> >  because
> >  >  it looks good to me?  Why not?  Da Vinci put moustaches on
> his
> >  >  paintings of men.
> >  >
> >  >  Peter, I expect much better hypotheses and arguments from
> you.
> >  >
> >  >  Dan Leeson
> >  >  DNLeeson@-----.net
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >  -----Original Message-----
> >  >  From: Peter Stoll [mailto:peterstoll2000@-----.ca]
> >  >  Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 7:22 AM
> >  >  To: klarinet@-----.org
> >  >  Subject: [kl] composer's intentions
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >  What about the many clear cases of composers
> >  >  rearranging pieces themselves?:
> >  >
> >  >  -Hindemith personally authorizing transcription of the
> >  >  Bassoon Sonata for bass clarinet
> >  >  -Prokofiev rearranging the Flute Sonata for violin
> >  >  -Khatchaturian authorizing transcribing the Violin
> >  >  Concerto for flute? (according to Rampal's liner
> >  >  notes)
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >  =====
> >  >  Peter Stoll
> >  >
> >  >  University of Toronto
> >  >  Royal Conservatory of Music
> >  >  RCM College of Examiners
> >  >  Toronto Philharmonia
> >  >  ERGO ensemble
> >  >  Talisker Players
> >  >
> >  >
> >
> >  >  _____
> >  >  Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
> >  >
> >  >
> >
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