Klarinet Archive - Posting 000346.txt from 2005/02
From: "sarah elbaz" <sarah@-----.com> Subj: RE: [kl] composer's intentions Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 08:19:08 -0500
Dan,
In your first answer I suspecred that your point is : My English is better then your and therefor I am right.
Now I am sure that this is your point and I think that its very ugly. Would you like to have this debat in Hebrew?
In Arabic? In French?
I am sorry- my English is not as good as yours.
sarah
-------Original Message-------
> From: "dnleeson" <dnleeson@-----.net>
> Subject: RE: [kl] composer's intentions
> Sent: 22 Feb 2005 20:51:11
>
> Sarah, what you are now doing is just digging a deeper hole.
> What you said was in defense of a questionable thesis, namely
> that these kinds of arrangements are good for everyone. And in
> defense of that thesis, and as evidence of its truth, that the
> Beethoven transcription was brilliant. You did that solely to
> imply that such brilliance allows and even justifies such acts.
>
> You were not offering an opinion as it applied to you, which you
> certainly have a right to do. Instead you put forward that
> opinion as sustaining a questionable practice (at least
> questionable in my eyes). The exact words you used were, "Have
> you heard the Beethoven violin concerto played on the clarinet?
> The idea is so brilliant!"
>
> I for one do not think so. I think it is a lousy idea. But who
> is right about the value of the idea is not the point. You made
> your point as if it were a mathematical postulate, whose truth
> did not have to be established. And you made that point entirely
> in support of the (to me) too frequent practice of ignoring what
> the composer explicitly requested.
>
> You then go on, to shout at me, "BUT WHAT MY EARS TELL ME IS THE
> MOST IMPORTANT ARGUMENT!" That statement is seriously
> incomplete. I do hope you meant, "BUT WHAT MY EARS TELL ME IS
> THE MOST IMPORTANT ARGUMENT to me." Are you seriously suggesting
> that what your ears tell you what is (or should be) the most
> important argument for everyone?
>
> You have generalized yourself to the point where you have become
> a self-made authority on what is good, or bad, or right, or wrong
> inmusic. And with respect, you are authorized to hold those views
> only for yourself.
>
> Believe and do what you wish. But don't tell me that what you do
> is good because you are doing it.
>
> Dan Leeson
> DNLeeson@-----.net
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sarah elbaz [mailto:sarah@-----.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 12:23 PM
> To: klarinet@-----.org
> Subject: RE: [kl] composer's intentions
>
>
> Dan,
> MY OPINION is that the Beethoven violin concerto on the clarinet
> is a brilliant idea, and the recording of Michael
> Collins is brilliant too. I don't need to hear other peoples
> opinion to know what to think . Knowledge of musical
> hiostory is very important - BUT WHAT MY EARS TELL ME IS THE
> MOST IMPORTANT ARGUMENT !
> AND MY MUSICAL COMMON SENSE IS MY EARS BEACAUSE I MAKE MUSIC WITH
> NOTES AND NOT WITH WORDS!
> Sarah
>
>
> -------Original Message-------
> > From: "dnleeson" <dnleeson@-----.net>
> > Subject: RE: [kl] composer's intentions
> > Sent: 22 Feb 2005 16:59:13
> >
> > Sarah you are in no position to assert what Mozart and
> Beethoven
> > would and would not mind. That tired old argument is used for
> > anything: "If Mozart had had a [fill in the blank] he
> certainly
> > would have used one."
> >
> > And your Rampal argument shows a lack of knowledge of musical
> > history. At the time of the publication of the first edition
> of
> > the Mozart clarinet concerto in 1801, there was also a
> > publication of the same work for a flute. So Rampal did not
> > suddenly decide to do the work on his instrument. It was
> decided
> > for him 2 centuries earlier. So do no think that Rampal's
> action
> > was synonymous with your assertion about how this shows him to
> > have been a forward thinker.
> >
> > The bottom line is that you can justify anything with this
> free
> > swinging assertion about the importance of being open minded
> and
> > full of imagination. It is a bankrupt, decrepit, and
> worthless
> > argument and it does not cash at any bank.
> >
> > And how do you know that the Beethoven violin concerto played
> on
> > a clarinet is brilliant? Did you take a vote on it or are you
> > expressing the opinions of lots of other people? The fact that
> > you may like something does not necessarily make it brilliant.
> > Instead, it may show the opposite; i.e., it could reflect
> > negatively on your taste.
> >
> > These discussions to justify the unjustifiable are like
> > corkscrews that turn on themselves and dig us into the ground.
> > Count me out of further defenses of what is nothing more than
> > musical common sense.
> >
> > Dan Leeson
> > DNLeeson@-----.net
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: sarah elbaz [mailto:sarah@-----.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 8:29 AM
> > To: klarinet@-----.org
> > Subject: RE: [kl] composer's intentions
> >
> >
> > Performers should be open minded and full of imagination and
> try
> > everything. The only way to know if an arrangement works is
> to
> > play it. Have you heard the Beethoven violin concerto played
> on
> > the clarinet?
> > The idea is so brilliant! Also Rampal played the clarinet
> > concerto by Mozart.
> > I think that Mozart and Beethoven wouldn't mind a good
> > performance.
> > Sarah Elbaz
> >
> >
> > -------Original Message-------
> > > From: "dnleeson" <dnleeson@-----.net>
> > > Subject: RE: [kl] composer's intentions
> > > Sent: 22 Feb 2005 16:12:56
> > >
> > > I don't know the answer to your question: "What about the
> many
> > > clear cases of compsoers rearranging pieces themselves?"
> > >
> > > OK, then. What about them?
> > >
> > > Does that mean that if Hindemith authorized something to be
> > done
> > > on his bassoon sonata, that justifies you or me or my uncle
> > max
> > > using an accordion in a Mozart piano sonata under the
> > assertion
> > > that "If he had an accordion, he would have used
> one." That's
> > > chancy history.
> > >
> > > Are there no limitations to the arbitrary alteration of
> > someone
> > > else's work? Can I draw a moustache on the Venus di Milo
> > because
> > > it looks good to me? Why not? Da Vinci put moustaches on
> his
> > > paintings of men.
> > >
> > > Peter, I expect much better hypotheses and arguments from
> you.
> > >
> > > Dan Leeson
> > > DNLeeson@-----.net
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Peter Stoll [mailto:peterstoll2000@-----.ca]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 7:22 AM
> > > To: klarinet@-----.org
> > > Subject: [kl] composer's intentions
> > >
> > >
> > > What about the many clear cases of composers
> > > rearranging pieces themselves?:
> > >
> > > -Hindemith personally authorizing transcription of the
> > > Bassoon Sonata for bass clarinet
> > > -Prokofiev rearranging the Flute Sonata for violin
> > > -Khatchaturian authorizing transcribing the Violin
> > > Concerto for flute? (according to Rampal's liner
> > > notes)
> > >
> > >
> > > =====
> > > Peter Stoll
> > >
> > > University of Toronto
> > > Royal Conservatory of Music
> > > RCM College of Examiners
> > > Toronto Philharmonia
> > > ERGO ensemble
> > > Talisker Players
> > >
> > >
> >
> > > _____
> > > Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
> > >
> > >
> >
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