Klarinet Archive - Posting 000116.txt from 2005/02

From: "Steve" <steve@-----.com>
Subj: RE: [kl] RE: Tuning, pitch, violinists, and so on...
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 07:24:57 -0500

Dear Friends,

A reminder to all discussing this subject: The TuneUp System was developed
to provide the individual player the opportunity to develop the very skills
Keith and others are discussing. Reading a book, even one as great as Mr.
Eskelins' is helpful, but you must have certain conditions present to
develop the ability first to hear pitch discrepancy, then apply what you
hear to the instrument.

The System includes a theory/workbook, plus an audio CD meant to be used in
private practice and ensemble work. The player not only has drones, which
are helpful, but full chords using just/pure intonation. If you hear the
beats of pitch discrepancy, YOU are the problem!

Please visit the Tuneup website. The video presentation is quite
informative.

In addition, during the Klarinet List Fundraiser, I am discounting the
System considerably from $54 to $40, then donating $20 of every purchase to
the List.

I work with clarinetists almost daily and find that intonation and pitch
perception is a huge challenge. Tuneup is a very powerful tool developed for
this very purpose!

Best to all,

Stephen Colley
www.tuneupsystems.com
804-852-8219

-----Original Message-----
From: Keith [mailto:100012.1302@-----.com]
Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2005 4:53 AM
To: klarinet@-----.org
Subject: [kl] RE: Tuning, pitch, violinists, and so on...

Dan,

An excellent book to help understand tuning, variable pitches etc is "Lies
My Music Teacher Taught Me" by Gerald Eskelin. It works entirely on
"beatless" tuning of variable-pitch instruments (ie not keyboards) and the
differences from equal temperament. Easy and fun to read. He also has a more
advanced book "The sounds of music: perception and notation".

As for practising with good intonation, you are correct that training with a
tuner on each note will drive you into equal temperament. As Tony Pay
remarked once here, if a wind ensemble tunes accurately and independently to
a piano, then plays the chord without a piano, it sounds out of tune.

I think that a good way is to analyze the key in which the passage is
currently in and play the TONIC on the tuner.

This when playing a piece in C, play a C. When the harmony switches to
dominant, play a G. You will find that a B (for example) tunes a lot
differently when its context is "seventh of the tonic" (I to VII) than when
it is "third of the dominant" (V to III). You and your friend can try this
out.

Player 1: play a C, player 2 play a B the 7th above. Listen and tune till
the beats disappear.
Now player 1 switches to G (up a fifth, and tries to make it a really
perfect perfect fifth, not an equal temperament one which is too narrow).
Player 2 stays on the B but now retunes to make the beats disappear. If you
are both hearing well, there should be a significant change of the pitch
necessary.

When a whole ensemble just sits there and listens to a chord till the beats
disappear, it makes an incredible difference. You might need to get your
string players playing senza vibrato for a while to help them slot in.

Keith Bowen

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 00:55:56 +0200
> To: klarinet@-----.org
> From: Daniel Fairhead <madprof@-----.net>
> Subject: Tuning, pitch, violinists, and so on...
> Message-ID: <20050205005556.18c1c7b2@-----.net>
>
> Hi list,
>
> (Sorry for bringing up the tuning/pitch topic again.) I am
> playing clarinet & classical guitar with a small group (
> violin doubling classical guitar, non-lyrical singer, and
> metalophone doubling occasional percussion ) as live music to
> a theatrical play. We had until recently a sop. sax playing
> with us (great!), but as he had to find other work, we now
> are rehearsing in a new violinist.
> She is extremely good, competent player, conservatory
> trained, soloist, and all. But I continually hear her sounding sharp.
> No-one else seems to, and all are entranced by her playing.
> So I expect it is my problem. I find myself lipping all over
> the place trying to play in tune with her, and jumping
> registers is often painfully out.
>
> I have read a bit about different tuning systems, about the
> differences in temperament, clarinet tuning imperfections,
> violinist's tendency to sharpness, and other possible reasons
> that could be causing problems.
>
> Should I do some serious study this week on temperament, get
> hold of a full score, and work out which intervals are likely
> to be problematical, try and intellectually solve it, or is
> that likely to not really help anything, and just confuse me more?
>
> Is there any particular direction or hint about what kind of
> thing I should be studying and working at to help with these
> kinds of problems ? I often am annoyed by tuning, and find
> music, both playing, and played by others, disturbingly out
> of tune. Is there anything I can do to teach myself to hear
> better, and be able to play in tune with others better? Or is
> it just practice ? Or is it just another "Something That Is
> Always A Problem. Life Stinks. Tough." ?
>
> About playing "in tune" in general... I know that a lot of
> "in tune"-ness is mostly a myth, and that there is no real
> "one in tune pitch" for a note (ie, A=440). (pitches needing
> moving because of intervals, chords, tone-color and so on),
> so, if practicing, what is the best way to learn to play the
> clarinet with good intonation? Playing scales, arpeggios,
> intervals, etc, using a tuner? If so, aren't tuners normally
> even-tempered? And wouldn't that train one to play
> even-tempered, and hard to play in other temperaments? Or is
> this not really an issue? What temperament/scale are
> clarinets manufactured to anyway?
>
> Sorry for asking so many questions, and for being so naive
> about all this. My teacher doesn't really tell me anything,
> and I cannot find anyone to really talk about such things here.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dan
>
> --
> http://www.madprof.net

+------------------------------------------------------------+
| Fri Feb 4 09:21:11 EST 2005 - 127 dononrs, 113 to go |
| The 2005 Woodwind.Org Donation Drive is Underway. |
| Please visit http://secure.donax-us.com/donation for more |
| information. Help Keep the List Going! |
+------------------------------------------------------------+
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Sat Jan 29 11:56:46 EST 2005

+------------------------------------------------------------+
| Fri Feb 4 09:21:11 EST 2005 - 127 dononrs, 113 to go |
| The 2005 Woodwind.Org Donation Drive is Underway. |
| Please visit http://secure.donax-us.com/donation for more |
| information. Help Keep the List Going! |
+------------------------------------------------------------+
Klarinet is a service of Woodwind.Org, Inc. http://www.woodwind.org
Sat Jan 29 11:56:46 EST 2005