Klarinet Archive - Posting 000732.txt from 2004/11

From: "Warren Rosenberg" <wrosenberg47@-----.net>
Subj: Re: [kl] Happy Thanksgiving-Bah Humbug!
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 18:23:03 -0500

I think it's arrogant, to say the least, for one who is American, to take
what sounds like glee to BASH America and the present president of your
country in a time of war. I can understand, to some extent, hatred of
another's country. But to sing along in harmony with the rest of the world
a chorus of anti-Americanism is hard to stomach. If you know a better
country, the door is open! I'm sure other countries will be happy to take
you.
Try Africa or China. Russia has a great musical tradition. Merry ol'
England is a reservoir of saints. Iran or any of the moslem countries swing
at this time of year. Women, especially, are welcomed.

When a person asked the other day the meaning of Thanksgiving I didn't take
it to be quite so innocent. Certainly any of the erudite members of this
list know how to do a google search on "Thanksgiving".
So why ask a group of bashers the meaning of Thanksgiving? It looks like a
softball question waiting to be hit out of the park. Naturally some of the
severe critics of George Bush, may I say, "Haters", went to town. Abuse of
the indians, turkey slaughters, etc. But they do throw in some lip service
to "humility" etc. How gracious! Of course, I didn't hear the taboo word,
G-D, mentioned in the Thanksgiving explanation, as G-D is of course, passe
in these modern times.

I wouldn't believe the spirit of Thanksgiving would give me a feeling of
sourness until I read some of these emails. How do you explain the holiday
without resorting to criticism of the people who founded the holiday? It's
a kind of self-hatred, isn't it? And who of you is so pure and innocent
that you should throw stones? Don't we all live in glass houses? Oops,
some I just realized, don't. Sorry if I offended you.
P.S. There are no atheists in foxholes.
And if your child recovers from a serious bout of cancer, you might just
Thank God for it.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Pay" <tony.p@-----.org>
To: <klarinet@-----.org>
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2004 2:05 PM
Subject: Re: [kl] Happy Thanksgiving

> On 29 Nov, "Lelia Loban" <lelialoban@-----.net> wrote:
>
> > I'm happy to bash the USA when I think we deserve bashing (for
re-electing
> > Dumbya and for our invasion of Iraq, for instance), but people who
figure
> > out ways to bash Thanksgiving seem mean-spirited to me, and they seem to
> > miss the whole point of the holiday as it's celebrated today.
>
> I certainly don't think that the notion of 'Thanksgiving' itself is worth
> bashing, as I hope my last post made plain. But it may still be worth
> commenting that what your Thanksgiving means *in the present context*,
unless
> presented to the world in non-parochial terms, may all too readily
generate
> cynical responses.
>
> The world is divided over this. 'Them and us' takes ever new turns.
>
> > [...the holiday is] celebrated by many citizens who are not only
> > non-Puritans but non-Christians,
>
> ...and, by the general posting of 'Happy Thanksgiving to everyone!', might
> also be thought to be capable of celebration by non-Americans...
>
> > ...including many who follow no religion at all, because taking a day to
> > reflect on humility and gratitude seems like a good idea on its own
merits.
>
> Absolutely. And I would like to join with you and other citizens of the
> world in reflecting on that.
>
> You are an American, of course. But, I suggest, in your American
celebration
> characterised in such terms, you are *incidentally* an American, as I
tried
> to make clear in my second post -- about context -- on the subject.
>
> Tony
> --
> _________ Tony Pay
> |ony:-) 79 Southmoor Rd tony.p@-----.org
> | |ay Oxford OX2 6RE http://classicalplus.gmn.com/artists
> tel/fax 01865 553339
>
> ... Proceed with Caution - Twisted Mind Under Construction!
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Klarinet is a service of Woodwind.Org, Inc. http://www.woodwind.org
>

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Klarinet is a service of Woodwind.Org, Inc. http://www.woodwind.org