Klarinet Archive - Posting 000477.txt from 2004/11

From: kimi <kimi_kimy@-----.com>
Subj: Re: [kl] Trust
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 21:10:17 -0500

Ya know I don't know about anyone else, but I grew up
being taught to respect other peoples property. I was
taught if you wanted to "use it" "borrow it" you ask.
Never make the assumption that it's just OK to take it
and use it and expect there to be NO repercussions
from such an action.

I have done the same with my own children. I will say
this from my standpoint. I believe kids has to be
taught at a very young age how to respect themselves,
their parents, their siblings, their family, and all
people around them. However!!! Respect is something
that only happens if there is a give and receive thing
going on with respect.

The other thing that I have taught all three of them
is, if they want to use something, borrow somethng
than all they have to do is ask. Whats the worse that
can happen out of asking? Nothing other than being
told No! No foul, no harm done.

They've been taught that it is NOT ok to steal, that
is NOT ok to take something that doesn't belong to
them. Maybe I am ancient in my way of thinking and
how I've taught my children. But at least I know I
have raised them to be honest and not sneaky.

They also know that they can come to me with anything
too. They also know that I will defend them when I
need to when it comes to something that they and I
know to be true and honest. Am I painting some rosey
picture? Hell NO. I'm just stating the fact that
they know the difference between right and wrong and
have been thoroughly taught that. They would never go
and take somebody's instrument and just walk off with
it and use it cause their own is broken. They would
however, either tell me first or their band director
that their instrument is broken and need help with
resolving that issue. More than likely they probably
would tell me first. Thas just the way our
relationships is.

You can be in a room filled with kids, know them all
by name, but not know a thing about any of them and
have 0 trust in them as well. Is that bad? No, just
means there hasn't been any kind of repetoir
established to build a trust level.

What I do know now is, something does need to be
accomplished in relationship to kids taking other kids
things. Something that will need to be discussed
amongst band parents in a meeting to see if there is
something that can be done to educate all involved so
that this issue doesn't continue to occur.

Things aren't like they were twenty years ago. People
used to could leave their car doors unlocked, their
front doors unlocked and not worry about some asshole
taking their radio or stealing their car or removing
precious items from their home.

Now you can't leave anything unlocked. People will
steal it if it's not secured. Seems like kids are
learning at a young age this same concept, and that is
very sad.

I have dogs for this very reason because I hate
leaving my house unattended out of fear I will come
home one day and find things gone. That isn't the
only reason though. I have them because me and my
children are alone at night alot due to their dad
having worked nights for the past 17 years. Things
has happened in this town to make most of us sit up
and say that we need to be more secure even in our own
homes. People aren't as trustworthy as they used to
be. This is just a sign of the times and where our
society is headed.

Hell ya can't even feel safe in your own country
because people have come here to violate the very
thing that was dear to us all. I don't know about
anyone else, but it used to feel good to know that we
were safe in this country. I recall seeing sombody
mention growing up in fear due to the cold war. Well
look at it now, our own children are growing up in an
era of terrorism. It would be a wonderful world if it
was free from all the bad things that happen on a day
to day basis and might even be easier to trust others
if our world was a better place to live in.

You are right about one thing, Kris doesn't know that
girl all that well that took her clarinet piece. She
has seen the girl giving the band director a hard time
countless times in the past but hadn't known anything
more about her other than in that context. There is
several in the band that is like that. Very
disruptive and out of control. Probably in the number
of say five or six out of an entire band. NOt a bad
ratio but there none the less.

The girls actions spoke for her.

Respect of other peoples property should have been
learned way long ago as a younger child being taught
by their parents. It's sad that one has to expect
school officials to teach teenagers the concept of
respecting your fellow persons personal property.

It's all good though. My daughter has learned a good
lesson out of this and she will be much more deligent
in protecing herself and what belongs to her.

K

--- Ormondtoby Montoya <orm1ondtoby@-----.net> wrote:

> Tony, speaking for myself and not attempting to
> speak for anyone else, I
> have recommended that some _education_ is mandatory
> in this case.
>
> Trust is not possible if people don't have
> confidence in what they can
> expect. Trust is not possible if all parties don't
> believe that there
> is a reasonable definition for what to expect.
> Trust is not possible
> all parties don't peceive that the largest portion
> of their society
> agree on this definition.
>
> So far, I have not seen a post on Klarinet that any
> adult has undertaken
> to educate the children involved. The only
> description of the school
> staff's response that I've seen was "God will take
> care of this" ---
> which in my opinion is a total "cop out" and
> insulting to any decent
> religion.
>
> I posted once before, and I'll repeat again, that
> education usually is
> *not* best accomplished by either punishent or
> condemnation. Nor does
> education necessarily mean an intense or extended
> interrogation with
> raised voice or display of power.
>
>
>
> But (so far) one unassailable fact remains.
> Property was taken without
> permission or notification. It must be explained
> to the children ---
> and the children must believe that the explanation
> is sincere and
> appropriate --- that private property is to be
> respected.
>
> I mentioned previously that context is quite
> important.
>
> Let's suppose that you and I were backstage, and I
> saw you walking off
> with my clarinet. Since I know you by sight, and
> since I know you are
> a performer with considerable stature and
> reputation, I am not going to
> scream "STOP THAT MAN! HE'S STEALING MY CLARINET!"
> I'm going to
> assume that you have a valid reason for picking up
> my clarinet.
> Perhaps you're worried that someone else will steal
> it because it's
> laying on a chair unattended. Or perhaps you want
> to play it yourself.
> Or perhaps you honestly mistook it for your own
> instrument and will
> search for the true owner as soon as you realze that
> it isn't yours.
> All of these possibilities would occur to me, and I
> wouldn't scream for
> the polce.
>
> On the other hand, if I didn't recognize you, or if
> you were wearing a
> trenchcoat and hiding your face and you looked
> sneaky, or if I hadn't
> seen who picked up my clarinet in the first place, I
> would be
> considerably more nervous and I would respond more
> vigorously.
>
> So.... exactly what was the situation with Kathy's
> daughter (and with
> Kathy when she heard about it)? The context makes
> a huge difference.
> Kathy's daughter may not have know many of the
> children in the area.
> Perhaps Kathy's daughter may not have even known
> whether all the nearby
> children were band students.
>
> Depending on such details, trust can be foolish or
> trust can be
> justified. In order for trust to be justified,
> everyone needs to feel
> that basic respect for property is accepted by
> everyone else. Such
> belief seems (so far) to be absent because no adult
> or school staff has
> attempted to explain it to all the childen.
>
> Once again, IMO, this must be done.
>
>
>
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=====

http://profiles.yahoo.com/kimi_kimy
Touch the Mind, Kiss the Heart, Embrace the Soul, Live, Laugh, Love!

He says that she says that you say that i said that this person says

Never put your faith in people, you may be disappointed

I tried to kill the pain,
But only brought more,
(so much more)
I'm dying
And I'm pouring, crimson regret, and betrayal.

I'm dying, Praying, Bleeding, Screaming,
Am I too lost to be saved?
Am I too lost?

My wounds cry for the grave,
My soul cries for deliverance,
Will I be denied?
Christ! tourniquet! suicide.

Evanescence

www.yahoo.com

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