Klarinet Archive - Posting 000308.txt from 2004/11

From: "David Renaud" <manonrivet@-----.ca>
Subj: Re: [kl] pitch standard
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 20:38:55 -0500

True what you say about piano stretch but my point was only
to illustrate how the window for placement is larger in the top end.

As Forest himself said in his orchestral example......as much as 30 cents in
the top
for placement. Try 30 cents in the middle....no way we can do that.

It is complex....and fussy.

Talking cents VS Hz and Orchestral stretch vs piano stretch,
and various pitch standards, This is getting more complex then it needs to.

I think through the confusion we have agreed on some fundamental points

1) It is complex
2) Standards are important
3) 4 cents in temperament octave is enough to matter.
4) That that error multiplies out exponentially as we go up

I hope you are not referring to me as (on the needle), if so you
misunderstood.
The needle is used for analysis, observation, and memorization only, not for
judgment of where it should go.
The ear judges, the machine remembers that human judgement for me for future
reference and comparison. The window is wide only to accommodate the
context,
the context determines where in the window to place a note.

I am going to attempt to write an article on this stuff.
It is worthy of some numerical analysis, graphs, charts of what various
instruments do in various circumstances.
Some pitch windows are wide in a sense and narrow the same time, and
interlinked.
It is a bit of a paradox.

I think in such an article, this can be tackled better then in pieces like
this.

Thank you all for your thoughtful and provoking input.

Dave Renaud

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Pay" <tony.p@-----.org>
To: <klarinet@-----.org>
Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2004 7:18 PM
Subject: Re: [kl] pitch standard

> On 8 Nov, "David Renaud" <manonrivet@-----.ca> wrote:
>
> > I will relate to piano since I know that so well.
>
> [snip]
>
> Sorry to snip your interesting stuff, but I just want to say that the
problem
> of making a piano sound good (including 'stretch' octaves) is very
different
> from the problem of making a wind chord (say) sound good, because the
piano
> isn't a 'harmonic' instrument in the way that a wind instrument is.
>
> So much so, that if you play a chord on a well-tuned piano, and then, note
by
> note, have a wind group reproduce that chord....
>
> ...then it sounds really out of tune.
>
> Of course, in a real situation, the wind group adjusts to minimise that
> out-of-tuneness -- even when playing in unison with the piano chord, when
> it's a question of choosing the most effective compromise.
>
> Tony
> --
> _________ Tony Pay
> |ony:-) 79 Southmoor Rd tony.p@-----.org
> | |ay Oxford OX2 6RE http://classicalplus.gmn.com/artists
> tel/fax 01865 553339
>
> ... Friendly checkout lady. Thanks for keeping me that way!
>
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