Klarinet Archive - Posting 000837.txt from 2004/10

From: "davidglenn" <davidglenn@-----.de>
Subj: Re: RE: [kl] Mozart, Don Giovanni, and Tony Pay
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 16:25:11 -0400

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Dan,
You make it sound very simple. But what about the difference between a basset horn and an Eb alto clarinet. Wasn't it you who claimed that wide bored basset horns were nothing more than alto clarinets in F? A basset clarinet also has that characteristic of a bore which is relatively narrow for its length. Thus basset refers actually by practice to an instrument with a relatively narrow bore and a different type of tone compared to a "short" clarinet.

We could call it" Concerto for Clarinet-type Instrument in A", or, in German "Konzert für Klarinettenähnliches Instrument in A".
David

By the way, in Berlin I was able to inspect the basset clarinet formerly owned by Hans Deinzer, one of the very first modern basset clarinets. I believe it's still up for sale. It had an impossible fingering system for the basset notes. Can't imagine how he ever managed but apparently Deinzer played the Mozart concerto (for Klarinettenähnliches Instrument) around 80 times on it and with much success.
+++++++++++++++++++++

> Von :: "dnleeson" <dnleeson@-----.net>
> An :: <klarinet@-----.org>
> Betreff: RE: [kl] Mozart, Don Giovanni, and Tony Pay
> Datum: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 11:32:23 -0700

> Tony, you have a bunch of historical and musical stuff mixed up,
> judging from your note on the subject.
>
> First, the name: while it true that the soprano clarinet that
> descends to low written C is called a basset clarinet, it's just
> a clarinet with some extra keys. Thus, the work that Mozart
> wrote for it is a clarinet concerto. If you want to be super
> precise, one could say that he wrote a basset clarinet concerto.
> But there is a limit to how far one needs to define individual
> peculiarities of the several different members of the B-flat
> soprano clarinet family. For example, one does not play the cat
> solo from Peter and the Wolf on a "Full Boehm Descending To Low
> E-flat, B-flat Clarinet." It's just a clarinet that happens to
> descend that low, and its rare enough that the solo is invariably
> played on an A clarinet. And there are special keys that one can
> get on a particular model clarinet that are not present on a
> different model, and these peculiarities do not find their way
> into a name description. So why should the basset clarinet
> somehow be treated differently?
>
> It's just a clarinet, that's all. It happens to descend to low
> written C. But that supplement does not really require a special
> name as you suggest. It could, of course, but the Germans would
> called it "überflussig" or "over specified."
>
> Insofar as what came first, that's clear. He wrote (or began) a
> concerto for basset horn and orchestra and then changed his mind
> for whatever reason. By the way, it was a basset horn in G, but
> the pitch of the instrument rarely sneaks in to a discussion of
> the work.
>
> I'm curious to know why you think that there is some kind of
> conspiracy theory associated with the basset clarinet. From my
> perspective, it's a very simple story. Only because the
> instrument disappeared and did not reappear until Dazeley's 1948
> paper speculating about such an instrument, has there begun a
> mystery about it. There was no mystery. Stadler had three of
> them, one in A, one in B-flat, and one in C. They all went down
> to low C. So? Nu?? Wha?
>
> Dan Leeson
> DNLeeson@-----.net
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tony-w@-----.jsptony%2dw@tiscali%2eco%2euk"
> TARGET="_blank" >tony-w@-----.uk</A>]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 10:48 AM
> To: klarinet@-----.org
> Subject: Re: [kl] Mozart, Don Giovanni, and Tony Pay
>
>
> The BBC listed the 'Performance on 3' concert with Tony Pay as
> being
> Mozart`s Clarinet Concerto and not Mozart`s Bassett Clarinet
> Concerto.
> I wish everyone could finally decide once and for all what
> instrument this
> concerto was written for. Would we call the W. Walton viola
> concerto a
> concerto for violin? Is Elgar`s cello a viola?
>
> I recently played a piano acc. to the slow movement being played
> on the
> bassett. (The performer like me, a pianist as well, also played
> the Chopin
> Fantasie Impromptu - without any wrong notes). The player stood,
> and used a
> metal rod (fixed to the bell) which rested on the floor to
> support the
> instrument. I believe Emma Johnson uses a sling. Do we know what
> past
> players used - Stadler? And would Tony Pay let us know what he
> uses and
> prefers. I forgot (!!) to ask if I could hold the instrument at
> our
> performance - I would dearly like to experience what it`s weight
> is, if
> nothing else - you see I`m afraid that similar thoughts occur in
> me, to what
> our other colleague expressed in here a few days ago. I have to
> respectfully
> express that I also am not a fan of the bassett instrument.
>
> Could this following situation have arisen? Mozart and Stadler in
> a chicken
> and egg situation. What came first, the bassett or the concerto?
> Without
> knowing the bassett, Mozart would have written the concerto for
> the 'A'
> clarinet - wouldn`t he? And maybe without the fiendish break
> reiterationing
> in the last movement. Could he have done so tho`, and then when
> Stadler had
> introduced him to the Bassett, Mozart set about revising his
> original draft.
> If the *bassett* came first, then where is the bassett`s other
> music, the
> repertoire, for this instrument? Stadler must have invested some
> pennies
> into it`s design and manufacture. He would have wanted more than
> just one
> piece of music to help him recoup his investment. He was after
> all a
> skin-flint - he didn`t pay Mozart for the concerto. When
> eventually the
> bassett fell out of favour, the subsequent editor(s) then moved
> the ACGC etc
> passage (what may not have been in Mozart`s original 'A' clarinet
> draft) up
> to the break notes. Not incredible I`ll say!
>
> There`s something not quite right about all aspects of
> speculation
> concerning the bassett, which, if you ask me, requires another
> fictional
> novel (we ain`t gonna get the truth) from someone!
>
> I thought of it first - All Rights Reserved!
>
> Tony W.
>
>
>
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