Klarinet Archive - Posting 000746.txt from 2004/10

From: Joseph Wakeling <joseph.wakeling@-----.net>
Subj: Re: [kl] Appealing to the superficial
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 12:13:34 -0400

Adam Michlin wrote:

> Babbitt or editor, I think it quite accurately depicts the elitism of
> many modern classical music composers and performers.

Well, my experience has been that for many composers and performers of
new music, it's the process of writing and performing that matters to
them, and having someone there to listen is (though nice) not the most
important part. But then again for lots of amateur musicians it's the
playing that is important---how many people are there who just play
piano for themselves with no thoughts of ever giving concerts? You
wouldn't call those people "elitist", so why should that label be
ascribed to composers who write for their own pleasure?

> Why do I care? Well, because my job as a teacher is to create educated
> musicians.

I would have thought that your job as a teacher was to open musical
doors for your students. But it's not your job to kick them through the
doors.

> Part of being an educated musician is being aware of as many composers
> and genres of music as possible. I'm curious as to how one achieves
> this without listening.

I agree, but it depends on how one goes about getting students to
listen. Bad teaching doesn't merely mean less information getting
through, it's an actively destructive process. Presenting music to
people in the wrong way may not just fail to get them to engage with it,
it may actually make it a lot more difficult for them to ever engage
with that kind of music at any time in the future. The same applies to
Shakespeare, and literature in general. I'm fairly convinced that the
teaching of Shakespeare in school in most cases puts people off it for life.

> Colleges recognize this, how many students get music degrees without
> music history? Without listening to a *lot* of music? How dare these
> colleges determine how other people live their lives!

Yes, but people *choose* to apply to music colleges, and even then, with
any luck, their teachers look on them as responsible adults whose
personal choices and desires are also important.

> Sure, and if you aren't a music teacher then great. Or do you suggest
> that a music teacher should only care that they themselves get to listen?

I suggest that if a music teacher plays some music and the students do
not respond, then something needs changing---the music, the classroom
approach, or in some cases, the teacher.

And I would suggest that it's just as important for the students to
present music they like to the class, and the teacher, as it is for the
teacher to present music to the students.

There were some students in my music class, in school, who were very
talented rock musicians. The music classes totally failed to allow them
opportunities to display and develop their talents, and I got the
feeling that very often they were bored and frustrated with the material
they were expected to cover. I personally think that was criminal.
Education should be about developing the student, not filling them with
a check-list of "prescribed" material.

>> In my experience, people don't respond well to someone who *wants*
>> them to listen to some particular music. The best responses seem to
>> come either when the person presenting the music is a trusted friend,
>> or when that person puts themselves and their opinions completely out
>> of the picture and simply lets the other person listen on their own
>> terms.
>
>
> The teacher student relationship is very different from the friendship
> relationships you are talking about.

I honestly don't know what "the teacher-student relationship" is,
because I have encountered many different teachers with many different
approaches. A couple of teachers I encountered took pleasure in
humiliating me because I was smart and enthusiastic. Others felt very
much like friends---friends to everyone in the class, I think---and
could make even less skilled students engage enthusiastically with their
subject. Some had a more distant (though candid) approach but were very
capable of making material interesting, while others I felt personal
affection for but I found their teaching to be not very effective.

Whatever, my personal experience is that I have learned the most *when I
did not feel like I was being taught*.

-- Joe

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