Klarinet Archive - Posting 000267.txt from 2004/09

From: "Karl Krelove" <karlkrelove@-----.net>
Subj: RE: [kl] Ridenour ATG Reed Finishing Kit
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 15:37:32 -0400

I have been using the ATG kit for a couple of months now, and I am pleased
with it. In general, it has solved the problem for me of guessing where the
spots are that need to be thinned to improve response. Once you've
determined the general area in which to work (left or right shoulder, left
or right "ear" or the center of the tip) the sanding block does a better job
than I tend to do working with rush or a knife in finding the high spots and
leveling the surface. I find the response of nearly every reed I've worked
on has improved.

My results are still a little equivocal in getting the right overall
strength (resistance) for a reed. Reeds that I'm happy to practice on in my
small practice studio often turn out when I bring them into a larger space
for a rehearsal to feel too heavy, and I've come to a conclusion opposite
Tom's, that although I *can* play on considerably heavier (more resistant)
reeds when I've balanced them with ATG (because they vibrate better), I
actually end up more comfortable in real playing conditions with the same
reed strength I've always used. I do have a stockpile of many different
strengths, ranging from old "Purple-Box" #5 Vandorens to newer "thick blank"
ones of several brands in strengths from 3.5 to 5.

It is very easy simply to take too much wood out of any of the areas of the
reed that you work on, a problem to which I think Tom Ridenour may have
contributed with some of his demonstrations on the CD. From the sound of it,
he starts with reeds that are VERY heavy and does what looks like a lot of
sanding on them. If you start with something closer to what you want in the
first place, one or two strokes may be all you need (or should do) to get a
good balance.

I work on my reeds while they're wet. Ridenour warns against working on them
when they're soaked (I took him to mean nearly or actually waterlogged), I
think because water logging changes a reed's response and may lead you to
make adjustments you shouldn't - and consequently ruin a potentially good
reed (this tends, of course, to be true regardless of the tools you use). I
have had no problem whatever with torn or chipped reeds using the ATG
sanding block according to instructions no matter how wet the reed was. Tom
Ridenour does warn specifically against working on reeds when the tips are
still crinkled (from not being wet enough). He also warns against sanding
back the other way (*toward* the tip), which I *have* found can tear small
pieces out of the tip. The tool is used, according to Ridenour's
instructions over the tip *toward* the bark (butt) end of the reed and
outward, across the grain.

I agree with Tom (Henson) that this "system" - apart from the tool itself -
is based on the feel of the reed and its parts as you blow, not on the
reed's appearance or any kind of visual inspection of its stiffness. This is
one of the things about Tom Ridenour's approach that actually surprised me -
having been brought up with the process of feeling the reed's stiffness with
a thumbnail run behind the reed tip after first holding it up to a light to
see its grain contour. Ridenour's approach to balancing the reed, for me,
has turned out to work more reliably than the visual approach, which for me
has made the kit worthwhile. I'm pretty sure I could get a small sanding
block and a piece of plate glass at considerably less cost, but the CD for
me made a big difference.

Speaking of the CD, I think in the next edition of the printed manual Tom
Ridenour ought to consider editing out a good deal of excess verbiage and
use the space instead to emphasize the points at which the CD illustrates
the instructions in the manual. I have never been a fan of video CD
instructions - they need to be watched in real time and are as a result more
time-consuming than reading through a printed booklet (skipping over
anything repeated more than once). As a result I tried to use the sanding
block with only the instructions I found in the printed manual. In my
opinion, it can't be done unless you already know how to use the sanding
block for reed adjustment (in which case you don't need the instructions at
all - or the kit probably). Anyone who buys the ATG kit needs to watch Tom
(Ridenour) go through the demonstrations, no matter how restless or
impatient it makes you feel. The printed manual doesn't even tell you how to
mount the abrasive on the block, much less how to use it.

My own reactions to ATG, for what they're worth. YMMV.

Karl Krelove

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tom.Henson@-----.com]
> Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 1:27 PM
> To: klarinet@-----.org
> Subject: [kl] Ridenour ATG Reed Finishing Kit
>
>
> I recently purchased the Ridenour ATG Reed Finishing kit from Tom and
> wanted to share my experience with it so far and find out if
> anyone is using
> this to finish and balance reeds. If so, how is it working out for you?
>
> First, we all struggle with reeds. I feel the more each of us can learn
> about reeds, the better our results will be. There are so many good brands
> of reeds available today and so many choices. I do not
> necessarily hold the
> theory that reeds were better back in the "good old days" and reeds today
> are horrible. There were very good and bad reeds back then, just as there
> are very good and bad reeds today. I have been doing some study of Ralph
> McLane and find that he was fanatical about the selection of his reeds way
> back in the 1940's, rejecting many reeds just by looking at them in the
> light. This discussion is not about that necessarily, but the way people
> balance them.
>
> I have used the Reed Wizard with good success in the past to balance
> commercial reeds, but this expensive tool is only made for a very specific
> purpose, and does not do all things that might need to be done in the
> process to balance a reed, so it's use is limited by design.
>
> In my ever constant quest for improvement and experimentation, I have now
> purchased Tom's ATG system. ATG stands for "Against the Grain" by the way
> due to the way it is used.
>
> I have used this system on about 40 reeds so far in about 10 days
> of use. My
> results have been both good and bad. Very satisfied and very frustrated at
> the same time. Here is what I have found out in my experience with this
> system.
>
> 1). Do not use this on a wet reed. Tom mentions this in one part of the
> instruction book and he means it. I have ruined several very good reeds by
> trying to finish the tip when it was wet. This resulted in small
> chips being
> torn from the tip and the edge of the ears. Not good, either clip reed and
> start over or throw reed away.
>
> 2). Make sure the tip is not warped as this will result in even worse
> problems when the tip become too thin in some spots and not in others. Tom
> also mentions this. Either clip reed and start over or throw away.
>
> 3). I have found, and so does Tom recommend, that you should sstart with a
> reed that is a little harder than you normally use. I generally
> use a 3 1/2
> strength. I tried his system on several brands at that strength (3 1/2)
> that work very well for me right out of the box and ended up with
> reeds that
> were way to soft and tips that were way too thin. This causes the sound to
> become thin, shrill and weak, lacking any depth.
>
> This poses a problem for me and I feel others, unless you have a stock of
> reeds harder than you typically use. This one thing alone leads me to
> believe that the cost factor to make up for the purchase of this
> system may
> not have as quick a payback if you have to go out and buy new
> reeds to make
> it work. I have had to go out and purchase # 4 strength in those
> brands that
> I normally use and really like.
>
> I did happen to have # 4 strength in my reed draw of some other brands and
> these are the ones that came out the best. Tom does not recommend clipping
> the reed unless you really have to, and does say that you might want to
> start with a harder reed than normal. Therefore, I can almost
> guarantee that
> you will end up clipping just about all of your normal strength
> reeds if you
> use his system.
>
> Now for the good part. I did have to read his instructions and watch the
> video that comes with his system several times, going back to it
> at times to
> make sure I was doing it properly. His system involves using a
> sanding block
> with a coarse abrasive paper on one side and a fine abrasive paper on the
> other. Keep in mind that all operations you perform with this method ONLY
> takes material away from the reed and the vamp. You can never put
> back what
> you take off. So if you go a little too far, you will end up with a ruined
> reed or have to clip it and start over. Too much clipping will
> lead to reed
> imbalance anyway and thus should be avoided.
>
> I am still frustrated in balancing the ears using his "ping"
> method. I have
> worked on reeds until I felt that they were both "pinging" the
> same on each
> side, but yet still did not pass his pitch test. When I then tried to fine
> tune the tip and ears, I sometimes took off too much and ended up with a
> reed that was worse, not better. This is not the fault of his
> system, but of
> my experience using it and I am having a hard time with the
> learning curve.
> I have a feeling that if you make your own reeds or are comfortable
> adjusting them that this system will be much less a problem to learn.
>
> I have managed to get several reeds that are very close to being perfectly
> balanced. This was a real eye opener for me, as I thought that I used
> several brands of reeds that were well balanced to begin with and
> they were.
> But this system can take them and make them even better.
>
> I found that in the end, it is all about feel. How does the reed feel when
> you play. Does it feel like it is vibrating evenly on both sides. Part of
> the learning curve is learning how a well balance reed feels when you play
> it.
>
> I have also discovered a couple of things as well. You use less
> pressure on
> a reed that is well balanced to get it to respond, and this can mean more
> endurance for your embouchure because it does not have to work as
> hard. This
> also results in using less jaw and lip pressure which discourages biting.
>
> Finally, I found that I could take a well balanced reed and slap it on the
> mouthpiece completely dry and it will play perfectly. It does not play any
> harder than when wet. I have a feeling that we tend to use too much water
> when wetting our reeds because they are not well balanced and we need to
> soften them up to get them to vibrate. The sound that you get from a well
> balanced reed will have more depth and resonance to it as well,
> so your tone
> should also improve just from using a well balanced reed.
>
> Overall, I am pleased, but still struggling to consistently make the reeds
> perfectly balanced. I do not find that this system will take a
> reed that is
> poorly cut, has poor cane, or has the heart off to one side and make it a
> great reed. It will make it better, but you have to have a good reed to
> start with in order to make a great reed.
>
> Tom Henson
>
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>
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