Klarinet Archive - Posting 000662.txt from 2004/07

From: "Warren Rosenberg" <wrosenberg47@-----.net>
Subj: [kl] Walter:Fw: [kl] Material influence on sound...one more time
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 14:07:53 -0400

Walter: Sorry, I must have had a seizure! My fingers slipped and I sent the
message without finishing. Anyway, my question was leading to the
following:
If the type of material is quite irrelevant, how much of a difference is
there between a high level name brand and it's low priced cousin. This
reminds me of golf clubs.
Only a pro could discern and utilize the distinction to advantage. In other
words, Tiger Woods could play very well on clubs from WalMart, but I
wouldn't play any differently on his. Please correct or affirm my "dark"
suspicions if you have a chance about the effects of marketing and price and
the true character of sound.

Also, I've never made a reed before, and I see you have a book available.
How long would it take a beginning reed "manufacturer" to make a reed better
than what I can buy commercially? 100 hours of practice? How much $ in
tools? Can I buy the tools at WalMart? :-) !!!
Thanks much. Warren
----- Original Message -----
From: "Warren Rosenberg" <wrosenberg47@-----.net>
To: <klarinet@-----.org>
Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2004 10:52 AM
Subject: Re: [kl] Material influence on sound...one more time

> Thanks again, Walter for such a nice, clear explanation. Much better than
> see the archive, youngblood.
>
> I believe I started this very interesting thread and concurrent trouble
> regarding materials. I've learned alot, but it appears that my suspicions
> about the influence of marketing may be more true than I thought.
> I've always heard that Buffet was King of the Clarinet Manufacturers and
> Grenadilla wood was the king of woods for clarinet.
> Now I wonder what's the straight dope.
> Is Buffet just a label like BMW and Benz, etc? Certainly the mechanics of
> the keys, etc. are better quality than the WalMart variety of which
everyone
> is so fond, but for the difference in price between a "student" buffet and
a
> R$
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <GrabnerWG@-----.com>
> To: <klarinet@-----.org>
> Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2004 9:05 AM
> Subject: Re: [kl] Material influence on sound...one more time
>
>
> > In a message dated 7/16/2004 11:21:01 PM Central Daylight Time,
> > ormondtoby@-----.net writes:
> >
> > <<Morrie Backun or Walter Grabner or Clark Fobes all have the boring
> > equipment to try this. I know that at least one of them has CNC
> > equipment and can probably do this experiment more precisely than I can
> > with my kluged-together-on-the-cheap equipment. I've often wondered
> > why one of them hasn't done so and announced the results.>>
> >
> > You can do that. Then you can announce the results. Then people will
say -
> > prove it.
> >
> > In fact I have done it.
> >
> > The problem here is that we are dealing with perceived phenomena, not
> > scientific results. I may make a barrel (or mouthpiece) that one person
> loves, and
> > another discards.
> >
> > Even though I disagreed with Dan in his recent post, to a very large
> degree
> > what he says is correct. The diameter and shape of the clarinet bore has
> an
> > affect on tone many times greater than that of the material used.
> >
> > However, I and others do perceive differences in tone (and response)
based
> on
> > material even when the measurements are as close as we can possibly get
> them.
> >
> > Benade believed that different materials influence tone because of the
> degree
> > of porosity in the walls of the material. For example, no matter how
much
> you
> > polish wood it will still have a porous structure, far different from
say,
> > plastic. The amount of porosity determines how much of the energy is
> absorbed by
> > the walls of the instrument.
> >
> > If I am understanding what I am reading correctly, the differences in
the
> > amount of energy absorbed accounts for the differences in the tone
quality
> as we
> > hear it. (Again, this has nothing to do with the body of the instrument
> > vibrating.)
> >
> > Here is a very simple example. Cocobolo is more porous than grenadilla,
> > plastic much less porous than grenadilla. If I make three barrels,
trying
> as hard
> > as I can to duplicate all the measurements exactly, and make one of
> cocobolo,
> > one of grenadilla, and one of plastic, I would have three barrels with
> SLIGHTLY
> > different tonal characteristics. If we say the grenadilla barrel is the
> > "control," the cocobolo barrel would sound more covered, less
penetrating;
> in fact
> > "darker." The plastic would be less covered, more penetrating, or
> "brighter."
> >
> > Maybe most of the difference is appreciable by the player. To what
extent
> the
> > difference can be heard by the casual listener ten feet away, I cannot
> tell
> > you.
> >
> > Maybe I can do some trials on that someday. However, nobody pays me to
do
> > that, and I do have to make a living. Great topic for a dissertation?
> >
> > To a certain extent however, I don't care. People stand in line to buy
> > barrels made of exotic woods. I could make plastic barrels all day and
> offer them on
> > eBay for $20 each and no one would buy them. It is amazing, sometimes,
how
> > the market decides these things.
> >
> > Walter Grabner
> > http://www.clarinetxpress.com/
> > World-class clarinet mouthpieces
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Klarinet is a service of Woodwind.Org, Inc. http://www.woodwind.org
> >
>

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