Klarinet Archive - Posting 000427.txt from 2004/06

From: "Abraham Gamboa" <abraham.gamboa@-----.br>
Subj: Re: [kl] Dubya - not clarinet related.
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 11:42:54 -0400

Actually I think we have an East or Middle East vs West problem here (at
least, we may be seeing the beginning of the fall of western civilization as
the Orient comes in BIG ..like China size).
Bin Laden refers al lot to "The Crusades, Crusaders" (the USA was not a
western nation at that time but full of Indian tribes which fought wars
amongst themselves). So he may not like the European descendents from the
Holy Roman Church/Empire manipulated the Bible to make money and power etc.
and the European colonizers.
BUT we need to go even further back to see the ancient mid-eastern
civilizations, where we will obviously find wars and hatred and etc. amongst
what we call the semitic peoples (both Arabs and Jews, I believe).
BUT we still have to go even further back to see that humans have always
fought wars and there has always been hatred, egoisms and etc.
HOW DO WE GET RID OF ALL OF THIS FOR ONCE AND FOR EVER!!!????
I'm not in favor of any war (self defense is another matter) BUT Bush didn't
start wars or invasions of countries, there were many before and there will
be many afterwards. We need to go BEYOND Bush bashing and deal with the
issues of human nature and etc.
IF NOT WE WILL ONLY REPEAT HISTORY AS WE HAVE FOR HOW MANY CENTURIES AND HOW
MANY MORE STILL TO COME!!!
I say God forgive and bless us all!!!

NOW CLARINETS ARE BEAUTIFUL INSTRUMENTS WHICH SHOULD BE BEAUTIFULLY PLAYED.
Abraham
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matthew Lloyd" <Matthew@-----.uk>
To: <klarinet@-----.org>
Sent: Friday, June 25, 2004 5:26 PM
Subject: [kl] Dubya - not clarinet related.

> I'm afraid I'm not going to stop criticising Bush. Either on this forum
> or elsewhere, and certainly not for Mr. Rosenberg. He is a dangerous
> idiot.
>
> Of course Bin Ladin is a dangerous and deranged individual. To have
> supervised the organisation of the destruction of the World Trade Center
> he could be nothing else. But what the American government need to look
> at why he did, is still doing it and will do it again. The American
> policy in the Middle East has angered very many around the world - not
> just Muslims - and many non-Americans wonder why it is acceptable for
> the Israeli government to ignore UN resolutions and yet not acceptable
> for Saddam Hussain.
>
> America needs to take a good look at itself in the world - these attacks
> happen for a reason and need to be understood - as well as challenged. I
> don't for one moment suggest that capitulation is the answer - but
> addressing some of the issues behind the hostility of Bin Ladin will
> lance the boil far more efficiently than acting as his recruiting agent
> - which in many ways is what Bush is doing.
>
> Don't forget that a Muslim killed in Jihad becomes a martyr and ascends
> to paradise to be surrounded by virgins. Young impressionable Muslims
> are all too easy to recruit on this basis.
>
> I find it strange that a government that is supposedly trying to instil
> Western values into the Middle East thinks that torture is a suitable
> weapon to use. Surely it is important to maintain our ideals of Justice
> above all, or we will be brought down to the level of terrorists
> ourselves.
>
> Matthew
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Warren Rosenberg [mailto:wrosenberg47@-----.net]
> Sent: 25 June 2004 19:33
> To: klarinet@-----.org
> Subject: Re: [kl] Mr. Rosenberg and the Customs of Klarinet
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Matthew Lloyd" <Matthew@-----.uk>
> To: <klarinet@-----.org>
> Sent: Friday, June 25, 2004 1:24 AM
> Subject: [kl] Mr. Rosenberg and the Customs of Klarinet
>
>
> > Mr. Rosenberg,
> >
> > I think the custom of Klarinet, if you want us all to honour it, is
> for
> > a mixture off topic discussions and on topic discussions.
> >
> To ML: An off topic discussion can be sent privately. People have
> separate
> individual email addresses. May I repeat your last suggestion? "Is
> this
> something you have
> > over there? If so, why not use it occasionally." Yes, Matthew, did
> you
> know that you don't have to tell everyone on the Klarinet list, your
> splendid ideas on how to govern the USA?
>
> > It's also a custom (which you are honouring) of complaining about
> emails
> > that verge (or veer) off topic.
>
> To ML: In a day of throat cuttings and airline hijackings and God knows
> what else is down the pike, I don't consider political discussions just
> an
> "off-topic" discussion. Do you? There exist thousands of other
> alternatives for your anti-US government opinions such as private email,
> chat lines, snail mail, meeting in your local sleeper cell with your
> friends, etc. Why not humble yourself and use these other sources for
> your
> brilliant comments? Yes, Matthew, why?
> >
> > There is a useful button on my computer to delete emails unread if the
> > title suggests I am not interested in it. Is this something you have
> > over there? If so, why not use it occasionally?
>
> To ML: Nice condescending comment! Yes, I'll try the delete button. I
> didn't know what it was for. Unfortunately I won't be using it on
> Klarinet
> for your pithy emails. I'll be writing you back and anyone else who
> wishes
> to harp on the President and/or government of the USA which is under
> attack
> by Moslem "fundamentalists". You or anyone else can write me back
> personally at:
> wrosenberg47@-----. Let's leave Klarinet for
> Klarinetists.
>
>
> >
> > Matthew Lloyd >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Klarinet is a service of Woodwind.Org, Inc. http://www.woodwind.org
> >
> >
>
>
>
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>
>
>
>
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>

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