Klarinet Archive - Posting 001321.txt from 2004/03

From: CBA <clarinet10001@-----.com>
Subj: Re: [kl] Fun day at Festival
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 14:41:07 -0500

Forest,

I actually don't agree that Bill's prejudice comes only from
selling instruments, and I have to agree with Bill a lot about
the way people buy instruments. Here's why...

1. People ALWAYS have preconceptions about instruments before
they go into the store. The only real way to test how a student
(or professional, for that matter) likes an instrument, would be
to let the player play all of the instruments that are up for
grabs without the logos on them. That isn't happening.

2. Because of the volume, people have more Buffets to try out.
People will buy more, because there are more to choose from...a
few years back, the new Camaro was rated better by consumers and
by J.D. Powers than the one year old new Mustang design. There
was a GM Motors strike, and the Camaro's production was at 1/4
what it was supposed to be. There was a waiting list for
Camaros. The Mustangs, even taking into account for the strike,
accounted for about 5 times the number of cars sold in the US
than the Camaros did. Brand loyalty? You betcha! Did a lot of
the 80% in the bell curve NOT strictly in the 10% of Mustangs
and 10% of Camaros buy Mustangs that year? Most definitely.
There are other contenders for the pony car genre of cars for
the late 90s, but this one sticks out in my head as the two top
contenders were neck and neck previously. Supply and demand
caused a great difference. If there are no Selmer Signature
instruments to try out, you don't buy one. You buy a Buffet that
is at the shop..very simple. Not everyone waits for that perfect
instrument, nor do they have the finances to travel around and
test out instruments at different shops in different cities.
That is why I am bringing a slew of students with me to
ClarinetFest to buy instruments when they can have a chance to
try mane brands out and decide for themselves.

3. Buffet R13s make up the vast majority of clarinet purchases,
by themselves in the US. It's what is considered the "standard"
professional instrument for clarinettists. When someone makes it
sound like "the standard" or what the first name on your lips
should be, people buy instruments for that sole purpose...to
fulfill a purchase that will not shame them with anyone else
involved. Loree oboes make up the vast majority of oboes in the
US for professionals. In Europe, you are looking at Marigaux or
Rigoutat as the standards...you hardly see a Loree. You would
hardly EVER see an R13 in Europe in a professional orchestra.
People buy what is the "standard" when push comes to
shove...ESPECIALLY when they are too young to make a decision
soley on their own playing ability. I particularly hate the
whole R13 scheme of playing, and like the RC bore Buffets a lot.
I left Buffet in the dust when I tried clarinets at ClarinetFest
in New Orleans in 2001. I bought both a Patricola Eb and a C
instrument there at the 'Fest, and put myself on a waiting list
for Guy Chadash's instruments. I then promptly sold my new
Prestige RC bore A and Bb instruments I had purchased a year
before at a loss of about $1000 to be able to get what I wanted.
I used my older RC bore Buffet Prestige Bb and Leblanc L300 A
(both of which played better for me than the new set) for the
next year while I waited for my set to be made. Wouldn't trade
any of my instruments for the world. The kicker for me a
ClarinetFest was that I found so many brands there that were
well adjusted by the manufacturers (which doesn't happen for the
most part at the stores as much) and I liked at least one
instrument of almost every professional brand better than the
$7000 of Buffets I had purchased the year before. The Selmer
10Gs REALLY blew me away, and they are discontinued. I was sold
on selling out of the Buffet fold.

4. I think also this would be similar to learning about religion
in school (wait...no flames...let me finish.) I went through 13
years of Roman Catholic schools, and had religion every year as
a course subject. Once in 7th grade, and once in my junior year
of high school I had a comparative religions class.

The 7th grade class was not very helpful except from a
historical standpoint. The teacher taught us about the other
religions from a Catholic viewpoint. It's like having a Buffet
Artist describe what they like about a Yamaha Custom clarinet.

In high school, the comparative religions course was different.
We had an enlightened woman with an idea of universal salvation.
Regardless of whether anyone agrees with that or not, it allowed
us the privilege of being instructed in the arts of other
religions from their standpoint. What I mean is, we would go to
the church, synagogue, mosque, etc, and the priest, minister,
rabbi, etc, would tell us about what it was to be part of their
faith. VERY enlightening. I wouldn't trade that knowledge for
the world.

If you want to know what is good about an instrument, ask
someone who plays on that instrument. There ARE a majority of
Buffet players in the US, or a majority or Wurlitzer players in
Germany, so ask SOMEONE ELSE for their input. I am sure Larry
Combs is very happy with his Opus, as Eddie Daniels is with his
Concerto, as is Ricardo Morales with his Buffet,
wait...no...Selmer, wait...no...Leblanc...what the crap is he
playing now anyway? He changes as "Artist" for an instrument
company more than I change my socks. Does he play on substandard
instruments? No way! With his kind of income, does he *need* the
endorsement or a free instrument? Not a chance! At his artist
level, is he most probably going to play on what does him best
at the moment? Hopefully...probably...not sure, actually.
Anyway, I don't think anyone complained of his playing while he
played on the Leblanc Symphonie, or the Selmer Signature instead
of the Buffet.

I can't tell you how many students I have encountered that have
band teachers that say..."get an R13" or even private teachers
too myopic to let their students try other brands. I had a
friend here in town who had a former student that needed to buy
a new clarinet. He couldn't go with the student, and the new
teacher, who was a conservatory prep school instructor, was
working on a gig, and couldn't go. He asked me to go with the
student, and his mother and father to choose an instrument. I
went (gratis, I may add) since my friend asked to the Woodwind
and Brasswind in NYC (when they still had a storefront here) and
we found a good Buffet R13 and a great Leblanc Concerto. We also
found a great Vandoren M13 mouthpiece that played SO much better
than the B45 he was playing on *for him*. He was able to take
them out on trial. The teacher forced him to take the R13 over
the Leblanc because she said "no one plays Leblanc" and also
forced him to remain on the B45 that wasn't working for him
because that is what ALL of her students used. I was furious.
The decision was made before the student even tried out the
instruments. During the play tests, I brought a blindfold for
the student, and had him turn around. He gave me his opinion, as
did his parents, and his older brother, who played trumpet. THEY
decided the Leblanc was best in sound, and the student liked the
keywork on it. To the teacher (or, we can insert here "the
establishment") this brand was substandard and unacceptable. The
real crime wasn't the Buffet though. It was the B45 that was not
working for him. He sounded semi-professional on the M13, but
sounded like a junior high player on the B45.

My main teacher in college doesn't play Buffet. At least half of
his studio doesn't either. He doesn't require his students to
play them, and he is open to all brands, as long as it is a good
instrument. I admire and respect him TERRIBLY for that, and wish
more people weren't wearing the horses blinders when looking at
the brand name. I hope one day I can live up to his standards of
"more than one way to skin a cat" and not direct my students
down a path because "everyone else does it."

By the way...60 years ago, you could have substituted SELMER for
BUFFET everywhere I said it. People ought to make intelligent
decisions based purely on what works for them, instead of taking
"the standard" because they are told that is what the
conformists do in this day and age.

Sorry for the long post, people...it *will* happen again...lol.

P.S. Forest...I have *3* Wiseman cases now...I would have never
left the BAM case I had that everyone else I knew had for their
clarinets if I hadn't seen you at ClarinetFest in New Orleans in
2001 with your Wiseman case. I am greatly indebted to you for
that, and think of it often when I travel with 1 flute, 1 oboe,
2 clarinets, and a soprano sax, all in the same case, and I am
not forced to pay extra for each of the extra cases when I get
on the plane. Thanks!

Kelly Abraham
Woodwinds - Computer Geek
New York City
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
--- Dallas SCUBA <forest_aten@-----.com> wrote:
<<SNIP>>
> Bill,
>
> It seems that your prejudice comes from a sales and marketing
> background.....not playing clarinet.
>
> Most clarinet players......select their instrument based on a
> set of
> objective criteria. Well trained musicians are constantly
> evaluating every
> aspect of their performance. Clarinet players are just about
> the biggest
> equipment fiddlers I know. The players (student or
> professional) that I know
> are always searching......for the perfect clarinet. They seem
> to end up with
> a Buffet. Not that it's perfect. It just meets most players
> criteria list
> better than most others.
>
> You elude to "known intonation issues" with the Buffet R-13.
> The R-13, with
> it's "known intonation issues", has far better intonation than
> most
> clarinets on the market today. Far better. Someone recently
> discussed the
> various changes needed to improve the R-13. Most of the
> improvements
> suggested had been recommended by Lee Gibson three decades
> ago. Buffet
> responded with the Festival. While the Festival did make
> improvements on the
> tuning issues characteristic to the R-13, it presented new and
> now "known
> intonation issues" for the Festival. The most obvious being
> the left hand
> plays low and the right hand notes play high.
>
> Every clarinet is a compromise. Buffets compromise is
> currently the best in
> my opinion. And in the opinion of a lot (most in North
> America)
> professionals. Players can think and easily develop
> independence of thought
> and action. We aren't as stupid as you represent.....makes me
> smile a lot
> Bill.
>
> If I were to switch brand logos and re-evaluate....the result
> would be the
> same....because the instruments being tested don't change
> because of a logo.
> Your bias is based on selling clarinets....not playing them.
>
> Forest Aten

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