Klarinet Archive - Posting 000385.txt from 2004/01
From: "Don Hatfield" <dhatfield@-----.org>
Subj: Re: [kl] Wagner
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 13:38:37 -0500
To add to the two-cents'-worth file -
My first thought after reading the posts up to this point was of Toscanini.
Correct me if I err on this, but didn't Toscanini oppose Mussolini and
Hitler, Fascism and Nazism? And didn't Toscanini throw himself into the
operas of Wagner, becoming a chief interpreter of Wagner's works before the
turn of the 20th century, conducting at Bayreuth until he had irresolvable
differences with the family? I wonder, then, if Toscanini saw anti-Semitism
in the music of Wagner before, during, or after WWII? I know I remember as a
boy the first exposure I had to classical music was watching an old film on
NBC of Toscanini leading the NBC Symphony through "Ride of the
Valkyries"...and I know that it's hard for me to listen to most of Wagner's
works without hearing and remembering the emotion and force (sorry if I'm
using vagaries for some tastes) of that black and white film that gave a
five-year-old boy chills.
I think I lean back to two previous statements from Joe Wakeling's email...
"But of course in modern times those stereotypes don't necessarily apply and
we are not obliged to interpret them in such a way." How did Toscanini and
other musicians look at Wagner at Bayreuth in the 1880's or 1890's...did
society of the time perceive the anti-Semitism?
....and....
It seems to me that this fits quite nicely into the point Tony Pay has
raised on several occasions about the difference in attitude between the
question "What is the text?" and "What is the composer's intention?"
Was the text the same to the musicians in 1890 as it was in 1920 or 1940 or
2004, politically? I am not familiar with the history of the particulars to
know that one? Were the composer's intentions read the same then as now? And
if we start tossing moral standards and objectivity into it....we'll have
this thread going for some time. I respect and understand Dan's opinion and
thoughts, and even his reason for shunning Wagner, but I don't know that I
can think in the same direction and set aside the man's (Wagner) musical
creation. By golly, you speak your stance very clearly, Dan, and I admire
that you can make your case so plainly and understandably. I'm not holding
Toscanini up as a perfect model in all this, he was the example that came to
mind. And I will spend some time delving deeper into Wagner now, to settle
my own mind and thoughts as a result of this discussion, whether some deem
it off-topic or not.
But, what if Wagner had been alive and writing the music fresh in 1939, or
2004?
Don Hatfield
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