Klarinet Archive - Posting 000335.txt from 2003/12

From: Dan Leeson <leeson0@-----.net>
Subj: Re: [kl] A little pat on the back for me from me to me and by me
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 08:34:39 -0500

Bob Langford wrote:

> What's in the m. 111 ?
>
> Bob L.

The manuscript of that movement consists of a 24-measure Adagio,
followed by an 63 measure Allegretto. At the end of the Allegretto are
the words "Da Capo Senza Repliche." Immediately after those words Mozart
places the coda. This is the physical organization of the manuscript of
the fifth movement of K. 361.

The way the movement is physically organizaed is NOT the way the score
is printed when you buy an edition. An editor decides to reorganize the
music so as to eliminated the necessity for the da capo later followed
by the leap to the coda. So a printed edition has the physical
organization like this: 24 measures of Adagio followed by the Allegretto
and THEN the Adadio is reprinted. At the end of this, the coda appears.
In effect, Mozart's abbreviation is all straightned out to make life
easier for the players.

The question that arises is, in the manuscript version in Mozart's own
hand, exactly how does one get to the coda? Another way to say this is
"Where is the leaping point from the Adagio to the coda?" There is
nothing in the manuscript that explictly says "Jump to the coda from
here!!" Should one play all of the Adagio over again or is the leaping
point somewhere other than at the final measure of the Adagio (which is
m. 111 in printed scores where the abbreviation has been straightened out).

For 2 centuries, the assumption was that, on the da capo, one played the
ENTIRE Adagio all over again and then the Coda. That connection makes
the first measure of the coda m. 112. But what precedes it?

But the manuscript does have a symbol written in Mozart's own hand that
can be interpreted in no other way than making that leap ONE MEASURE
EARLIER; i.e., play measure 110 and THEN play measure 112.

Got the picture? By making the leap one measure earlier, m. 111 is
eliminated. That is how you eliminate an entire measure of music from a
well-known Mozart work and get away with it by having the Berlin Phil
perform it in that fashion as well as having Tony conduct it that way in
Finland, as well as in a performance I influenced in Christchurch which
has the southernmost symphony orchestra in the world (and which had to
borrow basset horns from Australia to perform the work), as well as most
new recordings made. Only the Maccarras (spelling) recording kept the
measure in because, according to Maccaras, whom I pestered, the
musicians didn't like it that way, as if that had ANYTHING to do with
the matter. This is not a democratic decision decided on by player vote.

Anyway, that's why this is a better legacy than my uncle's button
collection.

Dan Leeson

>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tony Pay" <Tony@-----.demon.co.uk>
> To: <klarinet@-----.org>
> Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2003 8:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [kl] A little pat on the back for me from me to me and by me
>
>
>
>>On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 09:13:13 -0800, leeson0@-----.net said:
>>
>>
>>>But what would happen when they came to the 5th movement and m. 111
>>>(about which Tony Pay and I have had an infinite number of fascinating
>>>discussions). Would they include it (as I suspect is Tony's current
>>>thinking, though he is liberal on the matter), or would they exclude it
>>>(which is what I believe Mozart explicitly requested in the manuscript
>>>though in an ambiguous way)?
>>
>>The last time I directed it, in Finland earlier this year, we omitted the
>>measure, Dan. (I hope you're pleased:-)
>>
>>
>>>The only criticism I can launch at the playing (except for one final
>>>bassoon solo in the last movement) is that the players would not depart
>>>from the text.
>>
>>I know that you don't mean what you might be taken to mean here, Dan,
>>but....:-)
>>
>>
>>>As legacies go, it isn't much, but a lot of people leave a lot less as
>>>they move on to the great chamber music hall in the sky. I had an uncle
>>>who left a button collection. Feh!! Take out a measure of Mozart's
>
> music
>
>>>in an important composition and have it being performed that way around
>
> the
>
>>>world? Now that's better than my uncle's button collection.
>>
>>Yeah. I agree. Cheers!
>>
>>Tony
>>--
>>_________ Tony Pay
>> |ony:-) 79 Southmoor Rd Tony@-----.demon.co.uk
>> | |ay Oxford OX2 6RE http://classicalplus.gmn.com/artists
>> tel/fax 01865 553339
>>
>>... So... What've you been doing then?
>>
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>>
>
>
>
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>

--
Dan Leeson
leeson0@-----.net

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