Klarinet Archive - Posting 000487.txt from 2003/11
From: "Rupert Kahn" <Rupert.Kahn@-----.net>
Subj: Re: [kl] Sax, jazz/blues....tone?
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 19:56:55 -0500
Thanks to trish for offering suppport.
Ed, reading your post I think I expressed myself poorly. If I remember
right the thread began with a question about moving between classical
playing and jazz playing and the problems of producing suitable tone for
both settings. I took Annie to be saying that there is not a particular
tone for Jazz but that she has some techniques that she needs for Jazz, that
she doesn't use elsewhere and its these techniques that make the difference
rather than tone on its own. And she balanced this with some interesting
discussion of how she engages with the music when preparing a performance
for Jazz.
So what I meant was that tone is not necessarily a defining feature of the
difference between Jazz and Classical players. If you consider the range of
sounds required for Jazz and classical music (including contempory music
that is not properly called classical music) and compare it with, say,
traditional greek clarinet playing then I'd be inclined to say that they -
the first two - are coming form one tradition in their approach to sound.
(Speaking in very broard brush strokes here). I risk displaying my
ignorance by asserting that only a few Jazz clarinetists play with a sound
that really challenges our general idea of what a clarinet should sound
like. I recently heard a Tony Scott CD (The old lion roars)for the first
time and he would be an example. I look forward to more.
But I don't mind having an opportunity to say that tone is important but I
wonder how much of the distinctive sound of the musicians Ed identifies can
be reduced to tone, and if tone can really be regarded as a seperate part of
playing. Does it include attack, phrasing, altered pitch, articulation...
or is it limited to the kind of vowel sound you make when you play a long
note.
I have to say I'm a bit dubious about interpreting Bebop in terms of Punk
getures, I think the writer you quote was wanting to take issue with the
whole Marsalis/ Jazz as Black Classical music thing, but its anachronistic ,
and doesn't really fit for Ellington, who has had a similar legitimacy
confered but somehow doen't seem punky in the same way.
And finally, an annecdote
Many years ago I took a freind of mine to see John Surman play with a band
that included Kenny Wheeler. She was training to be an opera singer and
afterwards irritated me by saying that she thought it was wonderful that
they didn't have to worry about sound they produced. Looking back I'm sure
that what she meant was that she thought it was great that they were not
obliged to sound a particular way. Sorry to have caused similar irritation.
Best wishes
Rupert Kahn
--- Original Message -----
From: "Trish Mendenhall" <trishm@-----.com>
Subject: RE: [kl] Sax, jazz/blues....tone?
(Annie and Rupert, I'm sorry if I am misinterpreting your intentions - I'd
be happy to see clarifications from either of you if I am.)
I felt that Rupert actually misinterpreted what Annie was saying to suggest
that tone wasn't important, when what she was really saying was that in
jazz, what is considered "good tone" can vary widely, and that no one
perfect setup exists to produce some mythical "jazz tone" for everybody.
However, I didn't see ANY disdain at all in either post - I interpreted
Rupert to mean that a *specific* tone wasn't important, not that you didn't
need to care about good tone. Annie was providing illustration for her
point regarding setups and using her own experiences to do so. The same
case is regularly presented for why there is no single perfect setup for
everyone who plays "classical" music on a regular basis on this distribution
list.
In fact, I think Annie in some ways validates what you're saying by
suggesting that the player of jazz is a bit more free to play with a tone
that he or she finds most pleasing, not constricted to a certain "sound"
(thus opening the possibility more of the "illegitimacy" that you associate
with bebop, for example). That's not a denigration of the importance of
good tone in whatever style of music you play, just an acknowledgement that
"good tone" for jazz can vary in ways that aren't as common in the classical
world, and tends to be a lot more personal in nature, rather than driven by
a particular "school".
Annie prefers her tone with more classical roots, but with a bit of jazz
styling, if you will, by adding a judicious amount of vibrato and bending.
She isn't in any way suggesting that her particular preference is the only
correct one, or that the classical tone she prefers is the only true
interpretation. In fact, she says the following:
"...I have always said, play on the mouthpiece that produces the type of
tone that you like. If you can bend notes the way you like, it doesn't
matter what kind of mouthpiece you play on.
I used to like the Vandoren 5 RV Lyre mouthpiece. Now I like the
Clark Fobes San Francisco and the Vandoren M-30. Playing jazz has a more
to do with playing the melody line as though you were a singer than it
does with selecting a "jazz" mouthpiece. Maybe even playing that melody
several different ways and styles."
Again, it looks to me as if Annie's take is that some golly-gee whiz-bang
"jazz" mouthpiece isn't necessarily going to give you what you want, it's
more important that you pick a setup that does what you want *when YOU play
it*. She wasn't saying a thing about tone. She was pointing out the ability
to really play in the style will have more effect than picking a mouthpiece
purely because it's supposed to be good for jazz for some top jazz player
without seeing if it works *for you*.
Trish
-----Original Message-----
From: Ed Stuart [mailto:estuart@-----.net]
Subject: RE: [kl] Sax, jazz/blues....tone?
After reading this thread, what I see is an understated distain for music
not classical. Its amazing to read so many people on this list expound on
the importance of their tone as they play classical and then read that tone
is not a big issue when playing jazz. When I read interviews of *real* and
*successful* jazz musicans they are continually talking about what they went
through to develop their own distinctive tone.
[snip]
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