Klarinet Archive - Posting 000604.txt from 2003/07

From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?ferengiz=E2de_dani=EAl_shawqy?= <rab@-----.de>
Subj: [kl] Re: Greatest CPT Expert: Prof. Tim Roberts
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 06:29:11 -0400

Mr. Woodson,
I didn't say it was EASY to write any of these exercises (whether "lyrical"
or not, couldn't care less), I just maintain that they are HISTORIC and if
you can handle a lead type set bar (which I can't) you wouldn't boast about
it on the Adobe-DTP-list either, would you?
Moreover, please try to think about whether you really have to write this
kind of 16th/17th c. music for an instrument that was conceived in a very
different period for a very different kind of music. Why don't you write
your retro-fugues for viol consort, lute or virginal?
Danyel Franke

----- Original Message -----
From: Bear Woodson
Cc: Professor Tim Roberts ; Sehr Geehrte Professor Danyel ; Mr. David
Blumberg ; Mr. Kelly Abraham
Subject: Greatest CPT Expert: Prof. Tim Roberts

Hello, Klarinet List.

Well, I spent the last several days editing and
mailing off other works of music, and look what
happens. I get flamed by people who twist my
words, complain at me, as if I had been promoting
Intellectual Music for its own sake, when I had
specifically stated otherwise from the beginning.
Then they pose as if they have Supreme Expertise
and the Right to Judge Counterpoint, and works
of music that THEY HAVE NEVER HEARD!
Let's take a moment to look at what these charming
scholars have said, in spite of the facts.

> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 22:13:00 -0700
> To: Klarinet List <Klarinet@-----.Org>
> From: Bear Woodson <bearwoodson@-----.net>
>
> Hmmm? From where I stand you have
> precisely missed the point. My goal is to write
> music of Good Compositional (Intellectual)
> Quality AND Lyricism, for Each Major Instru-
> ment of the Orchestra. My likes for women
> and music are much the same: THERE NEEDS
> TO BE A HEALTHY BALANCE OF BEAUTY
> AND BRAINS; TOO MUCH OF JUST THE
> ONE WITHOUT THE OTHER IS
> DISAPPOINTING FOR ME.

All I did here was quote my earlier article, and
capitalize all the letters.

I was well trained 30 years ago by Composer,
20th Century Music Theorist, and Counterpoint
Expert, Ronald Lo Presti (1933- 1986). I soon
learned Ear Training to the point that I could
"hear" and "see" the score in my mind, and
haven't used a piano, nor any instrument, to do
my composing for over 25 years.

This kind of Ear Training is crucial in doing
"Counterpoint Sketch Pages" in the mind, to per-
fect the goal of writing LYRICAL fugal works
and NOT just intellectual exercises. To Mr. Lo
Presti, and his Chromatic Functional Modality
Harmonic Language, (in direct contrast to 12-
Tone Formulae, Aleatoric Music, and other non-
lyrical styles), if the music is NOT Lyrical and
Beautiful, IT IS A FAILURE!

I worked in non-music-related employment for
many years, but kept practicing Counterpoint
exercises in my head. In the last 9 years, melodies
now flow naturally, that then evolve into elaborate
yet LYRICAL Fugues, Double Fugues and even
Triple Fugues, without even trying! In effect my
Official Compositions have the Experience of 30
years of Counterpoint, while only being written in
the last 9 years. They are scorings suggested to me
in recent years by new musician friends, proving
that they were written recently, and cannot be old
writings, revealed now.

I've only been back to composing heavily in the
LAST NINE YEARS!!! I now hold a Master's in
20th Century Music Theory and Composition,
with Specialties in the 20 Century "Chromatic
Functional Modality" Harmonic Language and
COUNTERPOINT! What credentials do you
have in Counterpoint, Professor Tim Roberts?

Unlike Professor Tim Roberts, I must have
only written a paltry list of fugal works in my
chamber and orchestral works, because Prof.
Tim Roberts is so dismissive of them. It must
also be a mistake, that I am one of only a handful
of people in all history, to have had an ENTIRE
Dissertation written about me, based on just 4
of my horn works, written in these few years.
Here is the web address for the library listing
of that Dissertation:

http://catalog.lib.asu.edu/search/a?SEARCH=McGale

By the way, of the 6-Professor Doctoral Com-
mittee was headed by Professor Sam Pilafian, the
famous Tuba Virtuoso. He HATES Non-Lyrical
20th Century Music. So, Professor Tim Roberts,
HOW did a Dissertation on 4 of my Horn Works,
get past Sam Pilafian, if they weren't Lyrical and
Beautiful, in the first place? We're waiting for an
answer, Professor Roberts.

I guess it was also just by mistake that I was
Nominated by the Four Seasons Chamber String
Orchestra, for a Pulitzer in the Spring of 2003, for
my 3rd and 4th Double Fugue Works, which they
recorded. (No, I didn't win it, but neither did any
of the famous, Pulitzer Prize Winning Composers
that I have met, on their first attempt. And NONE
of them were nominated after only Eight Years of
writing!)

> Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 08:42:43 -0400
> To: <klarinet@-----.org>
> From: "Musician" <musicians@-----.net>
>
> Except for this list, I have never ever heard of you.
>
> David Blumberg
> www.TopTempo.com

Actually, Mr. Blumberg, there is NOT ONE
person on this List that I have ever heard of, other
than on this List. So what does that mean about
you? Meanwhile, I'm sure it's fair for me to ask:

Where are the Dissertations written about either
one of you, Professor Tim Roberts, and Mr.
Blumberg? When have either of you been
nominated for a Pulitzer? Why have I never
heard of either of you, except on this List?

Ladies and Gentlemen of the Klarinet List, I
am pleased announce the presence of what must
be the Greatest Counterpoint Expert in All Music
History: Professor Tim Roberts! He has said
many things that any Counterpoint Expert would
find extremely unusual, if it weren't for the fact
that we have HIS WORD FOR IT, that HE knows
what he's talking about! Here is just one example
of his Inspired Wisdom!

> Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 10:04:51 -0700
> To: "klarinet@-----.org>
> From: "Tim Roberts" <timr@-----.com>
>
> A retrograde triple fugue is certainly very neat,
> but it is difficult to believe that the technologies
> you tick off in that last paragraph could possibly
> combine to make anything other than chaos.

I guess Everyone, including Professor Roberts,
have written TONS of Lyrical Triple Fugues in
Retrograde. Please DO tell us all about the ones
you know of by other composers, AND written
by YOURSELF! I'm sure they were EASY for
you to do, to hear you tell it!

We are also blessed with the charming wit of
semi-anonymous person from Germany, who is
another great expert on Counterpoint.

> Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 13:19:14 +0200
> To: <klarinet@-----.org>
> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?ferengiz=E2
> de_dani=EAl_shawqy?= <rab@-----.de>

> My advice would be, not to reply to a composer
> who boast about his retarded "achievements" in
> such a way at all. It is ridiculous. Not to mention
> that a clarinet sonata is as such inapt to continue
> the tradition of the "Kunst der Fuga"!
> ...It makes me mad!...
>
> Best wishes,
> danyel (composer and clarinettist,
> Frankfurt/Germany)

You see, I've been reading the most authorized
Counterpoint Text Books and studying the scores
of composers, written in the last 300 years, not
to mention Leading and Pulitzer Prize Winning
Composers that have lectured or taught me
privately in the last 30 years. All those "CPT"
("Counterpoint") Sources seem to have the mis-
guided opinion that LYRICAL Double Fugues,
Triple Fugues and Stretto Fugues are RARE in
the Extreme! "Danyel" seems to dismiss them,
as if they are too easy to do!

I've spent years trying to find out how many
Double Fugues, Triple Fugues, Stretto Fugues,
were written by J.S. Bach, and I still only have a
partial answer! They aren't just in his Keyboard
Works, but are hidden in many of his hundreds
of choral and orchestral works. So let's ask the
All-Knowing Expert Professors Tim Roberts and
Danyel. Since they are so DISMISSIVE of the
EASE of writing such works, it must ONLY be
because they've Composed SO MANY of their
own! Enlighten us, Professors Tim Roberts and
Danyel!

How many of each:
True, 4-Voiced Unaccompanied Violin Fugues;
Double Fugues;
Triple Fugues;
Single, Double or Triple Fugues in Retrograde; and
Stretto Fugues;

were written by:
J.S. Bach (1685-1750);
All Composers since J.S. Bach;
those ever written by Professor Tim Roberts;
those ever written by Danyel; and
those written Bear Woodson in the last 9 years.

I'm sure that this will be a Mind-Numbingly
EASY set of questions for Professor Tim
Roberts and Danyel to answer. Because if they
can't list all of these EASY Compositions that
they imply were written by SO many other
people, and Composed by Themselves, then
Klarinet List people might begin to question the
sincerity of their Authority and Motives for
saying these many seemingly dismissive things!

Bear Woodson
Composer in Tucson, Arizona, USA

"Bear Woodson" <bearwoodson@-----.net>
http://www.fluteconnection.net/comp/woodson.html
http://catalog.lib.asu.edu/search/a?SEARCH=McGale

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