Klarinet Archive - Posting 000661.txt from 2003/06

From: Dan Leeson <leeson0@-----.net>
Subj: Re: [kl] Vibrato on the Clarinet
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 18:26:44 -0400

I played with De Peyer about 25 years ago and he certainly was not out
of tune then. He is a classy player and suggesting that he plays out of
tune is unworthy of Brash.

DNL

Matthew Lloyd wrote:
> I have never heard anyone claim De Peyer is out of tune. Anyone else
> think he is? I don't.
>
> Matthew
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brash, Alexander [mailto:BrashA@-----.org]
> Sent: 20 June 2003 16:06
> To: 'klarinet@-----.org'
> Subject: RE: [kl] Vibrato on the Clarinet
>
> Exactly! I hope there wasn't confusion on my previous post, I'm a
> vibrato
> supporter so to speak. Everything Leister has ever touched is deadly
> boring.
> I mean, horrible. He has a decent technique, but nothing that most
> conservatory grad students don't have, and he never does ANYTHING.
> Someone
> point me to a recording of his where he makes a phrase. He also plays
> badly,
> badly out of tune, as does the whole Berlin clarinet section when he was
> there. They think if they play out of tune together it's magically in
> tune.
> I honestly don't understand how people like him get big jobs...also
> people
> like Gervase de Peyer, who has a tone akin to the kazoo sound that we
> produced when we're first learning the instrument, besides being
> unacceptably out of tune all of the time. Like, out of tune that your
> high
> school band director would kick you out for. And he's a technical
> cripple to
> boot. Yet he has a rather large discography, a lot of it on respectable
> labels. How is this possible? Why do such bad players get good recording
> deals? Why are so many great musicians barely making ends meet?
>
> Alexander Michael Brash
> Education Dept, New York Philharmonic
> 10 Lincoln Center Plaza, 5th Floor
>
> phone (212) 875 - 5735
> cell (646) 284 - 0439
> email brasha@-----.org
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: LARISA DUFFY & DAVID DOW [mailto:DUFFYL@-----.CA]
> Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 2:54 PM
> To: klarinet@-----.org
> Subject: Re: [kl] Vibrato on the Clarinet
>
> What is sound but vibration?
>
> I am not quite sure why vibrato is such a problem....the players who
> are
> unable to perform with vibrato who work in any orchestra must find it
> strange that the flutes vibrate, the oboes too, the bassoons, and the
> trumpet, plus the strings.
>
> I am not sure if the word tradition can be used to donate a current
> school
> of thought. Its kind of like the apples and oranges thing. however,
> generally speaking a dull, routine straight sound can become very
> monotonous. Isn't it up to the player to use whatever means at his/her
> disposal to create musical interest...or if the conductor doesn't care
> to do
> dynamics and expression
>
> ' then why the heck would one consider trying to go a NOTCH above the
> monotones of straight sound? ' Some of the finest players in the world
> don't use vibrato and some of the finest players use it. Case over.
>
> Leister and a few other Oehler system players can be very boring. The
> last
> 3 versions leister has done of the Brahms Quintet are total replicas of
> each other. At the same time I think players like James Campbell and
> Thea
> King never get a fair shake so to speak....
>
> I also think that Drucker is a god.
>
> My old teacher Harold Wright said something very interesting...."The
> worst
> thing a clarinet player can do is to play with a bit of feeling."---Of
> course this was a joke....mainly because there is such a huge variance
> among
> clarinetists about what defines a good playing style. Wright also said
> there is always alot of advice out there, and most of bad. A player
> generally has to come up with there own ideas about the sound and way
> they
> play.
>
> There are a lot of bad conductors too....I have never heard a word about
> a
> conductor telling me to use a straight sound. I have heard more ask for
> vibrato instead!
>
>
>
>
>
> - Original Message ----
> From: "Brash, Alexander" <BrashA@-----.org>
> To: <klarinet@-----.org>
> Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 7:01 AM
> Subject: RE: [kl] Vibrato on the Clarinet
>
>
> We handle the problem like this: playing in an AMERICAN "tradition." As
> Stravinsky said in his Charles Eliot Norton lectures at Harvard:
>
>
> 'A real tradition is not the relic of a past irretrievably gone; it is a
> living force that animates and informs the present. (...) Far from
> implying
> the repetition of what has been, tradition presupposes the reality of
> what
> endures. (...) Tradition ensures the continuity of creation. (...) A
> renewal
> is fruitful only when it goes hand in hand with tradition.'
>
> I think this quote outlines very well (among other things) the spirit of
> the
> American clarinet. We take established schools and traditions and let
> them
> inform us as we continuously evolve. This is why the principal players
> in
> our orchestras are not deadly boring musicians, ie Leister. And speaking
> of
> "relics of the past irretrievably gone"...ummm where are the women in
> your
> orchestras? I know they're trickling in, but I wonder how female German
> clarinetists feel about the male dominated German school. Oh wait! I
> know
> what they do! They become soloists instead and then come over here and
> play!
>
>
> You wrote:
> Seriously, I think we are missing something, historically speaking. Over
> here it would be totally unthinkable to use vibrato (at least in
> Austro/German chamber music) and I must say that it DOES sound FAR
> better
> than the less restrictive performance practice...
>
> Please prove to me it sounds far better. See Mr. Cohler's article for
> some
> discussion of his own experiments with non musicians, and asking them
> which
> tone quality they prefer. Let me see something similar from you.
>
> By the way, I can think of several great places to shove my freedom
> horn.
>
>
> Alexander Michael Brash
> Education Dept, New York Philharmonic
> 10 Lincoln Center Plaza, 5th Floor
>
> phone (212) 875 - 5735
> cell (646) 284 - 0439
> email brasha@-----.org
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ferengizâde daniêl shawqy [mailto:rab@-----.de]
> Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 7:21 AM
> To: klarinet@-----.org
> Subject: Re: [kl] Vibrato on the Clarinet
>
> No!
> Clarinet and vibrato! How could a civilized Conductor tolerate such a
> gross
> abuse of the noblest of all wind instruments? I think in Germany you'd
> get
> lynched if you'd dare to try even the most subtle vibrato.
> Yet,
> the great Muehlfeld (for whom Brahms wrote his late parts) was reported
> to
> have played with more vibrato than the cellist of the Joachim
> quartet....
>
> Seriously, I think we are missing something, historically speaking. Over
> here it would be totally unthinkable to use vibrato (at least in
> Austro/German chamber music) and I must say that it DOES sound FAR
> better
> than the less restrictive performance practice... maybe one day we'll
> have
> to acknowledge that the modern Austrogerman Clarinet and it's playing
> tradition is in fact a different instrument and should be given a
> different
> name or rather the French/Italian instrument should be called "claroe",
> "clarott", "claroon" "clareek" or something like that...
> BTW, may I ask how US players handle the problem of playing an
> instrument
> that is either French or German in tradition (i.e. evil in any case) --
> Did
> you have to rename it "freedom horn" or did someone come up with a new
> "redneck"-system?
> Regards,
> danyel
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Deidre Calarco
> To: klarinet@-----.org
> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 8:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [kl] Vibrato on the Clarinet
>
>
> On 6/18/03 1:48 PM, "Jimmy Lee" <jrlaudio@-----.net> wrote:
>
>
>>a conductor that does not want clarinets to use vibrator is a
>>loser
>
>
> ROFL
>
> I agree. It's none of the conductor's business if the clarinetists like
> to
> use vibrators. That's personal!
>
> (back to lurking)
>
> -Deidre
>
>
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--
***************************
**Dan Leeson **
**leeson0@-----.net **
***************************

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