Klarinet Archive - Posting 001127.txt from 2003/04

From: Roger Shilcock <roger.shilcock@-----.uk>
Subj: Re: [kl] Pronunciation/Spelling
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 00:47:43 -0400

Tony P.,
There is so much here, and people are objecting - as least, Neil is.
I'll Email privately when or if I can find the time and get my thoughts together.
Roger S.

In message <20030424.074937.30@-----.org writes:
> On Wed, 23 Apr 2003 13:38:41 +0100 (BST),
> roger.shilcock@-----.uk said:
>
> > I'm not sure I'm competent to deal with all your questions. I did mean
> > that speakers of a language with a written form tend to regard the
> > written form [and] as the norm and so pronunciations come into use
> > based on the sounds which the written characters are held to
> > represent.
>
> So, what you might call the meaning -- the pronunciation -- of a group
> of letters changes? That would be like the change of meaning between
> the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries of a written slur, perhaps.
>
> Can you give an example?
>
> > I wasn't trying to say anything in particular about Italian, which is
> > a case of a language which was originally a written standard becoming
> > a widespread spoken language; Urdu is another such example.
>
> How do you mean? Did Italian spread in a written form, then? It does
> seem surprising that there is such a close relationship between spelling
> and pronunciation in Italian, where there isn't in English -- presumably
> because English spelling shows traces of how the words evolved.
>
> Music too obviously spreads in both written form and 'performance' form,
> sometimes independently. Has widespread travel and modern technology
> changed how the two means of spreading interact, both in language and
> in music?
>
> > Re Spanish: I was really trying to say not that there are various
> > dialectal pronunciations, but that there are local standards, notably
> > within Latin America.
>
> So, a 'local standard' would be different from a dialect, how?
>
> > I think I missed the original point about Italian. It may be relevant
> > to the "Partit(t)a" issue that the Italian and the local dialects
> > prevalent in Austrian Italy had *no* "lengthened" consonants. I
> > believe that - at least, I read that - many speakers in the north who
> > consider themselves to be primarily Italian-speakers nowadays don't
> > use these consonant forms consistently.
>
> I'm fascinated that we can have evidence about the use of lengthened
> consonants -- I take it you mean, used (or not) in speech and
> corresponding to the written forms which were common to everyone -- in a
> particular region. (And (you say 'had') -- at a particular time?)
>
> Is there a good book about all of this?
>
> Tony
> --
> _________ Tony Pay
> |ony:-) 79 Southmoor Rd Tony@-----.uk
> | |ay Oxford OX2 6RE http://classicalplus.gmn.com/artists
> tel/fax 01865 553339
>
> .... Don't worry. I forgot your name, too!
>
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>

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