Klarinet Archive - Posting 000121.txt from 2003/04

From: jim lande & Joyce Mason <lande@-----.com>
Subj: [kl] Re: klarinet Digest 4 Apr 2003 09:15:02 -0000 Issue 4447
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 00:30:58 -0400

Tom
Thanks for the reply. I hate replacing springs. I hope most are goo=
d, once
you have it apart and cleaned. I never doubled that every pad and every =
bit of
cork on the horn would need replacing. No matter what they look like and=
no matter
what the seller says, unless they are new, they are no good.
I have been using white kit bassoon pads, which Ed Myers music sells =
in thin
sizes. Generally, thin sizes work better than medium sizes. However, a=
t the
moment, my favorite metal clarinet is one that someone else repadded usin=
g treated
bladder pads and last summer I did one metal clarinet with all cork pads.=
I am not
a good enough player to notice much difference.
Cheers
jim

klarinet-digest-help@-----.org wrote:

> klarinet Digest 4 Apr 2003 09:15:02 -0000 Issue 4447
>
> Topics (messages 63013 through 63022):
>
> Clarinet sound
> 63013 by: Dan Leeson <leeson0@-----.net>
> 63015 by: "Rebecca Brennan" <rjbrennan1221@-----.com>
> 63017 by: Elgenubi@-----.com
> 63019 by: Ed Wojtowicz <ewoj@-----.net>
>
> Rebecca's retainers
> 63014 by: "Rebecca Brennan" <rjbrennan1221@-----.com>
>
> Scale juries :/
> 63016 by: "Rebecca Brennan" <rjbrennan1221@-----.com>
>
> Patricola
> 63018 by: Barbara Reimer <muse@-----.net>
>
> Orpheus Orchestra
> 63020 by: b1rite@-----. Rite)
> 63021 by: "Benjamin Maas" <benmaas@-----.com>
>
> F-series Buffet A
> 63022 by: Magnus B=F6rjesson <magnus.borjesson@-----.com>
>
> Administrivia:
>
> To subscribe to the digest, e-mail:
> klarinet-digest-subscribe@-----.org
>
>
> To post to the list, e-mail:
> klarinet@-----.org
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 14:27:00 -0800
> To: klarinet@-----.org
> From: Dan Leeson <leeson0@-----.net>
> Subject: Re: [kl] Clarinet sound
> Message-ID: <3E8CB534.8080904@-----.net>
>
> Ed, thank you for your response, but it is clear to me that we have no
> basis of communication if, as your note indicates, you consider only th=
e
> pitch of a note as the required element in performance. In effect, the=

> character and register of the needed sound appears to hold no importanc=
e
> to you.
>
> I heard a performance of a Mahler symphony done without E-flat clarinet=
s
> because the management did not want to pay the extra money. The results=

> were that all of the pitches were heard on B-flat clarinets -- many in
> the wrong register -- but none of the instrumenal character was
> retained. The performance was awful at those moments when the needed
> clarinet was not used.
>
> What you propose is fundamentally unmusical.
>
> Dan
>
> Ed Wojtowicz wrote:
> > There is no difference in the sound of clarinets- By transposing you =
can
> > play the same pitches and avoid switching clarinets.
> >
> > Ed
> >
> >
> >
> >>From: Dan Leeson <leeson0@-----.net>
> >>Reply-To: klarinet@-----.org
> >>Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 11:42:40 -0800
> >>To: klarinet@-----.org
> >>Subject: Re: [kl] Clarinet sound
> >>
> >>I'm not sure what you mean when you say, "There is likely no differen=
ce
> >>if you transpose and use a different clarinet." Could you expand on
> >>this, please.
> >>
> >>Dan
> >>
> >>Ed Wojtowicz wrote:
> >>
> >>>Many times you hear about playing things on Bb, A, C, Eb or D clarin=
et.
> >>>There is likely no difference if you transpose and use a different c=
larinet.
> >>>The player is influenced by the relative size and mass of the instru=
ment, as
> >>>well as the psychological ease of playing in one tonality or another=
that
> >>>may be more comfortable (physically or mentally) to the player. The
> >>>difference in the size mouthpiece and reed contribute to the players=

> >>>approach to the instrument and perception of tonal difference.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>:-)
> >>>Ed
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>From: Dan Leeson <leeson0@-----.net>
> >>>>Reply-To: klarinet@-----.org
> >>>>Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 12:21:32 -0800
> >>>>To: klarinet@-----.org
> >>>>Subject: Re: [kl] Clarinet sound
> >>>>
> >>>>The first consideration that you have to accept is that you are not=
the
> >>>>best judge of how you sound. People have to get away from the sour=
ce of
> >>>>sound to hear it best. Did you ever notice how, during an audition=
, the
> >>>>person judging you walks away from you? Well you as the player are=

> >>>>right up against the sound, and you can't hear it realistically.
> >>>>
> >>>>But you may also be influenced by a number of things, such as excel=
lence
> >>>>of intonation, the sealing characteristics of each pad as it closes=
to
> >>>>cover its hole, the general feel of the instrument, and other
> >>>>psychological factors that combine to give you a greater affection =
for
> >>>>one instrument over another. For example, I have a gold plated bas=
set
> >>>>horn and I think I play better on it than if it were silver or plat=
inum.
> >>>>Why? I don't know. I just like the gold and I think I sound bette=
r
> >>>>with it, though I don't.
> >>>>
> >>>>You also hear a lot how a person sounds better on a wooden clarinet=
than
> >>>>a plastic one. It is also probably not true, but wood is a beautif=
ul
> >>>>physical medium and that affects the performer.
> >>>>
> >>>>Dan
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>--------------------------------------------------------------------=
-
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>--
> >>***************************
> >>**Dan Leeson **
> >>**leeson0@-----.net **
> >>***************************
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>---------------------------------------------------------------------=

> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------=

> >
> >
>
> --
> ***************************
> **Dan Leeson **
> **leeson0@-----.net **
> ***************************
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 00:36:37 +0000
> To: klarinet@-----.org
> From: "Rebecca Brennan" <rjbrennan1221@-----.com>
> Subject: Re: [kl] Clarinet sound
> Message-ID: <F28ULPEhGD1XyCTr9rf000099ef@-----.com>
>
> I agree with Dan on this one. I have had to do a lot or transposing fro=
m Bb
> to alto and it didn't sound good at all, even though my band dictator
> insisted I sounded fine, i just felt I wasn't getting the right sound
> because I was in the wrong register. it bothered me, but it beat playin=
g
> bari sax parts.
>
> -Rebecca
>
> >From: Dan Leeson <leeson0@-----.net>
> >Reply-To: klarinet@-----.org
> >To: klarinet@-----.org
> >Subject: Re: [kl] Clarinet sound
> >Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 14:27:00 -0800
> >
> >Ed, thank you for your response, but it is clear to me that we have no=

> >basis of communication if, as your note indicates, you consider only t=
he
> >pitch of a note as the required element in performance. In effect, th=
e
> >character and register of the needed sound appears to hold no importan=
ce to
> >you.
> >
> >I heard a performance of a Mahler symphony done without E-flat clarine=
ts
> >because the management did not want to pay the extra money. The result=
s
> >were that all of the pitches were heard on B-flat clarinets -- many in=
the
> >wrong register -- but none of the instrumenal character was retained. =
The
> >performance was awful at those moments when the needed clarinet was no=
t
> >used.
> >
> >What you propose is fundamentally unmusical.
> >
> >Dan
> >
> >
> >
> >Ed Wojtowicz wrote:
> >>There is no difference in the sound of clarinets- By transposing you =
can
> >>play the same pitches and avoid switching clarinets.
> >>
> >>Ed
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>From: Dan Leeson <leeson0@-----.net>
> >>>Reply-To: klarinet@-----.org
> >>>Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 11:42:40 -0800
> >>>To: klarinet@-----.org
> >>>Subject: Re: [kl] Clarinet sound
> >>>
> >>>I'm not sure what you mean when you say, "There is likely no differe=
nce
> >>>if you transpose and use a different clarinet." Could you expand on=

> >>>this, please.
> >>>
> >>>Dan
> >>>
> >>>Ed Wojtowicz wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>Many times you hear about playing things on Bb, A, C, Eb or D clari=
net.
> >>>>There is likely no difference if you transpose and use a different
> >>>>clarinet.
> >>>>The player is influenced by the relative size and mass of the
> >>>>instrument, as
> >>>>well as the psychological ease of playing in one tonality or anothe=
r
> >>>>that
> >>>>may be more comfortable (physically or mentally) to the player. The=

> >>>>difference in the size mouthpiece and reed contribute to the player=
s
> >>>>approach to the instrument and perception of tonal difference.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>:-)
> >>>>Ed
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>From: Dan Leeson <leeson0@-----.net>
> >>>>>Reply-To: klarinet@-----.org
> >>>>>Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 12:21:32 -0800
> >>>>>To: klarinet@-----.org
> >>>>>Subject: Re: [kl] Clarinet sound
> >>>>>
> >>>>>The first consideration that you have to accept is that you are no=
t the
> >>>>>best judge of how you sound. People have to get away from the sou=
rce
> >>>>>of
> >>>>>sound to hear it best. Did you ever notice how, during an auditio=
n,
> >>>>>the
> >>>>>person judging you walks away from you? Well you as the player ar=
e
> >>>>>right up against the sound, and you can't hear it realistically.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>But you may also be influenced by a number of things, such as
> >>>>>excellence
> >>>>>of intonation, the sealing characteristics of each pad as it close=
s to
> >>>>>cover its hole, the general feel of the instrument, and other
> >>>>>psychological factors that combine to give you a greater affection=
for
> >>>>>one instrument over another. For example, I have a gold plated ba=
sset
> >>>>>horn and I think I play better on it than if it were silver or
> >>>>>platinum.
> >>>>>Why? I don't know. I just like the gold and I think I sound bett=
er
> >>>>>with it, though I don't.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>You also hear a lot how a person sounds better on a wooden clarine=
t
> >>>>>than
> >>>>>a plastic one. It is also probably not true, but wood is a beauti=
ful
> >>>>>physical medium and that affects the performer.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Dan
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------=
--

> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>--
> >>>***************************
> >>>**Dan Leeson **
> >>>**leeson0@-----.net **
> >>>***************************
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>--------------------------------------------------------------------=
-
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>---------------------------------------------------------------------=

> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >--
> >***************************
> >**Dan Leeson **
> >**leeson0@-----.net **
> >***************************
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
>
> Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
> http://join.msn.com/?page=3Dfeatures/featuredemail
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 20:30:52 EST
> To: klarinet@-----.org
> From: Elgenubi@-----.com
> Subject: Re: [kl] Clarinet sound
> Message-ID: <24.3b83ca8a.2bbe3a4c@-----.com>
>
> Ed,
> Of course you are substantially right. But there is a tremendou=
s
> history on this subject. There have been times and there are places wh=
ere
> people do try to minimize the number of clarinets they use. I get the =
sense
> that we are moving into a time where increasingly respect is being paid=
to
> the exact instrument the composer called for. The pros on this list ca=
n
> correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that 40 years ago C clarinet parts=
were
> routinely transposed to a common clarinet, but today they are mostly (?=
)
> being played on C instruments????
> Poke around on the archives and you'll see billions of words abo=
ut
> this subject.
>
> Am I right, List? As I wrote that sentence I wondered. I know how Dan=

> feels; I know that many of you are using C instruments; do most pros us=
e C
> clarinets rountinely? How about Italy? Is it true that most Italian
> professionals use just one full Boehm, and if so, is that likely to cha=
nge?
>
> Wayne Thompson
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 23:39:58 -0500
> To: <klarinet@-----.org>
> From: Ed Wojtowicz <ewoj@-----.net>
> Subject: Re: [kl] Clarinet sound
> Message-ID: <BAB276CE.337B%ewoj@-----.net>
>
> Yeah, but since it has been asserted here before that materials don't
> matter, German clarinets despite the difference in dimensions, have no
> difference in timbre (or so I've been told) etc, etc, I figure that the=

> difference from A to Bb is minimal. Hey, what is a half step among frie=
nds?
>
> ;-)
>
> Ed
>
> > From: Dan Leeson <leeson0@-----.net>
> > Reply-To: klarinet@-----.org
> > Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 14:27:00 -0800
> > To: klarinet@-----.org
> > Subject: Re: [kl] Clarinet sound
> >
> > Ed, thank you for your response, but it is clear to me that we have n=
o
> > basis of communication if, as your note indicates, you consider only =
the
> > pitch of a note as the required element in performance. In effect, t=
he
> > character and register of the needed sound appears to hold no importa=
nce
> > to you.
> >
> > I heard a performance of a Mahler symphony done without E-flat clarin=
ets
> > because the management did not want to pay the extra money. The resul=
ts
> > were that all of the pitches were heard on B-flat clarinets -- many i=
n
> > the wrong register -- but none of the instrumenal character was
> > retained. The performance was awful at those moments when the needed=

> > clarinet was not used.
> >
> > What you propose is fundamentally unmusical.
> >
> > Dan
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 00:27:58 +0000
> To: klarinet@-----.org
> From: "Rebecca Brennan" <rjbrennan1221@-----.com>
> Subject: RE: [kl] Rebecca's retainers
> Message-ID: <F45NqU6oXF9hf9Vu60T000099e9@-----.com>
>
> I am forced to wear my retainers all the time because my gums are weak =
and
> my teeth shift. When I play withouth them it causes excrutiating (sp?) =
pain
> on my lower lip and my two front teeth.
>
> When I was a freshman and sophomore and still had the nasty metal brace=
s, my
> bottom lip was always cut and swollen because I practiced so much. I HA=
D to
> cut round cotton pads in half and put them on my lip while I played and=
I
> spent tons of money on blistex and oral gel. I had serious biting probl=
ems
> with my mouthpiece too and I had to keep the braces nearly two years lo=
nger
> than I should have because I would bite so hard and my teeth would shif=
t,
> but I remember what I was always told...
>
> "Never sacrifice tone for anything!"
>
> I took that to a whole new level!
>
> -Rebecca
>
> >From: "Buckman, Nancy" <nebuckman@-----.edu>
> >Reply-To: klarinet@-----.org
> >To: <klarinet@-----.org>
> >Subject: RE: [kl] Rebecca's retainers
> >Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 07:58:54 -0500
> >
> >Rebecca,
> >
> >I have worn those same type of retainers for the last 12 years and fin=
d
> >that if I take them out, I have problems (I feel like I don't have eno=
ugh
> >teeth and I bite). So they shouldn't hinder your playing. In fact, i=
f
> >prior to having your teeth straightened you had crowding or an overbit=
e,
> >you are better off wearing them while you play, as they will prevent y=
our
> >teeth from shifting. That is precisely why I wear mine. I have been
> >through orthodontics four times, along with extensive jaw surgery, to
> >correct major problems incurred after teeth shifted. I will wear thes=
e
> >retainers for the rest of my life and I'm doing it with a smile on my =
face.
> > They are the reason I am still able to play. Your teeth are the
> >foundation of your embouchure. Take good care of them.
> >
> >Nancy
> >
> >Nancy E. Buckman, Technical Assistant
> >School of Health Professions, Wellness and Physical Education
> >Anne Arundel Community College
> >Arnold, MD 21012-1895 USA
> >Phone 410-777-2316 Fax 410-777-2233
> >E-mail nebuckman@-----.edu
> >
> >
> >
> >---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
>
> Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
> http://join.msn.com/?page=3Dfeatures/featuredemail
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 00:39:58 +0000
> To: klarinet@-----.org
> From: "Rebecca Brennan" <rjbrennan1221@-----.com>
> Subject: Re: [kl] Scale juries :/
> Message-ID: <F103sdNwNZB3ol7d5Ge00009ab9@-----.com>
>
> What is a scale jury? I feel dumb for asking, but we don't have auditio=
ns
> and challenges where I come from. We just go where the band dictator th=
inks
> we will best bennifit the band. True dictatorship!!!
>
> -Rebecca
>
> >From: "Samantha McDaniel" <jupitertc@-----.com>
> >Reply-To: klarinet@-----.org
> >To: klarinet@-----.org
> >Subject: [kl] Scale juries :/
> >Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 14:26:58 -0500
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Well gang, I have scale juries today :/. I'm always extremely nervous=

> >right before them. I failed my first one my freshmen year, but it did=
n't
> >affect me moving up to the next level. I haven't failed since, but I =
still
> >get nervous. Wish me luck :(
> >
> >~SAM~
> >
> >Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
> >http://join.msn.com/?page=3Dfeatures/featuredemail
> >
> >
> >---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
>
> The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
> http://join.msn.com/?page=3Dfeatures/junkmail
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 20:27:35 -0600
> To: klarinet@-----.org
> From: Barbara Reimer <muse@-----.net>
> Subject: Re: [kl] Patricola
> Message-id: <FF3BEC34-6644-11D7-AA8F-00039316D9C6@-----.net>
>
> Thanks Nancy et all for your responses,
>
> yes, i am trying out several. I don't think i've brought my own
> clarinet to rehearsal since the fall! I like the Eb/Ab key because I
> don't have use of all of the right hand keys due because my finger
> locks. I looked into getting that key put on to a used instrument but
> my repair guy said it would be better to but something with it already
> there. It would cost about 500$ to add it.
>
> I live in a very dry climate and within the year we get temperatures
> ranging from -40 to +40 (degrees celsius), is rosewood going to be a
> problem here? No one I know has anything other than grenedilla or
> plastic. (This is why I was looking at the greenline.)
> Weight is an issue for me too [i have lupus related arthritis] but I
> was going to have a ring made with an eye attached to put between the
> joints so I can use my kooiman thumbrest and a more sturdy neckstrap.
> ...And no brace!
>
> And has anyone had any experience with the plateau-keyed clarinets? Is=

> this a feature worth looking into?
>
> thanks again,
> Barb
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 21:49:13 -0800 (PST)
> To: klarinet@-----.org
> From: b1rite@-----. Rite)
> Subject: Orpheus Orchestra
> Message-ID: <21807-3E8D1CD9-2651@-----.net=
>
>
> Tomorrow night will be a new experience for me. I'll be hearing an
> orchestra that has never had a conductor. Evidently they decide how t=
o
> play each composition by discusing it among themselves.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2003 23:16:58 -0800
> To: <klarinet@-----.org>
> From: "Benjamin Maas" <benmaas@-----.com>
> Subject: RE: [kl] Orpheus Orchestra
> Message-ID: <002101c2fa7a$2f13b510$6601a8c0@CIRCLE2>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: B. Rite [mailto:b1rite@-----.net]=3D20
> >=3D20
> >=3D20
> > Tomorrow night will be a new experience for me. I'll be hearing an
> > orchestra that has never had a conductor. Evidently they=3D20
> > decide how to
> > play each composition by discusing it among themselves.
> >=3D20
>
> Enjoy... They are a truly amazing experience to watch.
>
> Some years back, I had the opportunity to watch a dress rehearsal for a=

> concert they were about to play. It was like a big chamber music =3D
> rehearsal.
> One or two people would put their instruments down and go into the =3D
> audience
> to listen. After a bit they would offer comments. Occasionally, =3D
> somebody
> would disagree on an interpretation and they would discuss it. All
> discussions were also channeled through principal players to maintain =3D=

> order
> in the rehearsal.
>
> --Ben
>
> Benjamin Maas
> Freelance Clarinetist and Recording Engineer
> Los Angeles, CA
> http://www.fifthcircle.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 09:52:11 +0200
> To: <klarinet@-----.org>
> From: =3D?iso-8859-1?Q?Magnus_B=3DF6rjesson?=3D <magnus.borjesson@telia=
=2Ecom>
> Subject: Re: [kl] F-series Buffet A
> Message-ID: <00bf01c2fa7f$1a233220$3a5decc2@Bostream>
>
> Hi Mike
>
> I=B4ve the sam problems with my Buffet S1 purchased in the early sevent=
ies. I
> posted a question to the Buffet Crampon forum a year ago.
>
> Here is the question:
>
> I have a Buffet Crampon (Bb) S1, serial number F123356 and a S1 (A), se=
rial
> number F143020. They are both a bit sharp, specially the one in Bb. The=
B
> and C in the middle register are very sharp. Can anybody explain why? A=
nd
> what can i do to solve this problem I=B4ve heard that the F stands for =
sharp
> pitch.
>
> And here is the answer:
>
> First of all, the F preceding the serial number indicates tuning at 442=
-444
> and normally means that the instrument was intended for sale in Europe =
(or
> at least not the USA.) Tuning on these instruments can be a little tric=
ky,
> but it is manageable. Try tuning open G by pulling out the barrel; then=
tune
> staff C by pulling out between the main joints. That should help.
>
> Maybe you can find some more facts at the forum:
>
> http://www.musicgroup.com/Instruments/Forum/FrameForum.htm
>
> Cheers
>
> Magnus
> (Sweden)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Smith" <mike@-----.edu>
> To: <klarinet@-----.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 9:00 PM
> Subject: [kl] F-series Buffet A
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > Would anyone know reliable technical details about the F-series A
> clarinets
> > produced by Buffet in the late 60s and early 70s. I have one (s/n
> F-107383)
> > purchased domestically in 1970 and have since been told variously tha=
t
> these
> > were an experimental bore taper, that they were later redignated as t=
he RC
> > model, that they were never officially distributed in the U.S., and t=
hat
> > they were pitched higher than 440. (After playing one for quite a fe=
w
> > years, I don't believe this last speculation.)
> >
> > Mine is somewhat stuffy, with a distressingly sharp throat b-flat (ad=
ding
> > fingers help, but not enough). Other than that, not a bad horn.
> >
> > My apologies if this has already been discussed on-list. Returning y=
ou
> now
> > to the regularly-scheduled thread about the location of the Bisti
> > Badlands...
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Mike Smith
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------=

> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of klarinet Digest
> ***********************************

---------------------------------------------------------------------