Klarinet Archive - Posting 000934.txt from 2003/03

From: Tony@-----.uk (Tony Pay)
Subj: Re: [kl] Cylinders vs. Cones: The Clarisoon
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 16:28:27 -0500

On Sun, 23 Mar 2003 15:30:07 EST, Elgenubi@-----.com said:

> The Experiment - A bassoon reed on a clarinet
>
> Understand that even though I'm trying to be sort of scientific, this
> is generally done for fun. Also, if I've made any basic music theory
> mistakes, please correct me, but consider the basic observations
> still sound. Setup: A bassoon reed with the wrapped portion imbedded
> in a wine bottle cork (split down the middle and gouged out to
> receive the fat reed), the whole sealed with bits of rubber washer
> and paper and inserted in the socket of my barrel so that the butt of
> the reed is even with the bottom of the socket. The end of the reed
> is thus about 1.2 inches shorter than the end of a clarinet
> mouthpiece. I can swap the barrel with another similar barrel with
> my normal setup for side by side comparison. I determined the results
> by comparing to a piano, thus all my data is Concert pitch. I've
> only studied the longest possible tube so far; all data is for the
> clarinet low note and its overtones.

[snip of stuff about what a clarinet does]

> The clarinet with bassoon reed low note is an unstable D or D#4,
> already an octave higher that the clarinet. It is a buzzy, horrible
> bassoon sound.

and,

> There is seems no possibility of sounding the low D3 with the bassoon
> reed.

How does this fit with the fact that a clarinet reed *will* sound the
low D3?

Probably it's to do with the fact that the vibrations inside a bassoon
reed, given its dimensions and nature, are too complicated to fit the
requirement of setting up a simple standing wave matching the length of
the tube -- which is what the clarinet reed and mouthpiece will do.

But, so what?

And, given that it won't do this, why should we think anything else
about the system is significant in any way whatsoever?

Some of this 'else' is below:

> It overblows rather easily to a fifth higher, A#4. The clarinet
> register key makes this quite stable. This is a nicer sound, not
> unlike a high bassoon. It then overblows to the octave, D#5, and this
> note is equally easy with or without the register key. It is also a
> nice sound. More embouchure and it overblows to F or F#5. This is
> stable but it slides around a lot with reed pressure. And finally,
> it overblows to about A#5. That's all this reed and embouchure will
> do.

So.

> Conclusion: This supports the dilemma Dan Leeson has pointed out.

What dilemma is this?

Lots of arbitrary but normal clarinet setups don't immediately produce
the fundamental either. Beginning students often can't do it
straightaway even with a normal mouthpiece. They need to be guided
towards an appropriate reed, and further towards an appropriate
embouchure.

Given this, is it then surprising that other aspects of your 'strange'
setup don't accord with what a 'clarinet' is predicted to do?

Nobody would want to claim that theoretical analysis can explain the
sounds that are produced by even simple 'strange' setups. The
mathematics involved is just too complex. It can't even predict
accurately what sounds a beginner will produce.

But it's perverse to challenge an analysis that correctly predicts what
will happen to a simple stable setup -- a 'clarinet' -- just because it
doesn't apply to one of those strange setups. You can understand why a
'clarinet' will overblow at the twelfth, because the argument involves
assumptions about the boundary conditions which can be seen to be
realistic for a 'clarinet', but not realistic for a 'strange' setup.

And actually, those strange setups aren't interesting musically, which
is why I don't really want to bother with them. For me, it's enough to
want to understand more fully something of what *is* interesting
musically, even if my understanding of all sorts of other more
complicated things is necessarily highly limited.

Tony
--
_________ Tony Pay
|ony:-) 79 Southmoor Rd Tony@-----.uk
| |ay Oxford OX2 6RE http://classicalplus.gmn.com/artists
tel/fax 01865 553339

... This is a Tagline mirror><rorrim enilgaT a si sihT

---------------------------------------------------------------------