Klarinet Archive - Posting 000243.txt from 2002/12

From: "rien stein" <rstein@-----.nl>
Subj: [kl] claribass in A
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 18:31:41 -0500

On the bass clarinet list I got following messages. Maybe something for Dan
Leeson?:

>>
Why would Frank Bridge write the Bass part for his Orchestral
Suite "The Sea" predominantly for BC in A ?? Work was printed and
dated 1920.

The second movement is for BC in Bb. Certainly, the 1st and 2nd
clarinets are configured similarly, so it corresponds in that sense.

Any comments ?

BobT
<<

>>
so funny you should mention that bob,
i just finished a season playing that last week.

the only conclusion i made is that the man was an
idiot... (i'm joking obviously, but still, not my most
favourite work in history).

perhaps either there were lots of Bass clarinets in A
back then - prokofiev, rachmaninov, ravel, mahler all
wrote for Bass in A.

OR there were only a few people who played bass
clarinet by trade. by this i mean that since there
were not so many people making bass their "thing",
there was not very much common knowledge about the
instrument - ie, that it was ONLY in Bb. as far as i
know, the bass didnt become trendy till Josef Horak
(1960's?), or really big until Harry Sparnaay (1972).

still, one would assume that even a master
orchestrator like ravel (who put the entire part for
La Valse in A), or mahler (who would have studied more
scores - particularly operas - than most...)would have
done their homework...

very interesting question - horn players and trumpet
players are expected to transpose, maybe this is just
a skill that is dying out for clarinettists? it could
be that clarinettists were always expected to
transpose, and over the past few generations
"laziness" has kicked in, and it is no longer
taught??? where i study, trumpet players are
instructed to "pick an instrument" for each concert
(Bb or C) and stick to it for the rest of the program,
transposing where necessary - could this have been the
case for us 60-70 years ago?

great question bob, i'll be thinking about that one
for a while - we all know how annoying it is
(particuarly if we arent so proficient at
transposing), but very seldom do we think "Why?"

philip.
<<

>>
That's an interesting lesser known work, I remember not having time to
recopy the part for Bb and just learned the part transposing it in my head.
I think you have it right when have the bass in A matched as a section to
the soprano clarinets in A. What would be interesting is if anyone has had
their bass part in A while their section mates are playing on Bbs. Of
course Frank Bridge has studied how other composers score their works,
sometimes I wonder if people write for bass in A because they've seen others
do it and just figure it's expected.

Bradley Stevens
<<

>>
There's a really simple answer for this (and most other instances) of
bass clarinet in A:

Most bass clarinets until the mid-1900's went only down to E, like
their clarinet counterparts. People used bass clarinets in A so that
the range would be extended (like the clarinet). Only until bass
clarinets were developed to go down to Eb did it become an obsolete
practice. If you look at the part, see if that particular movement
goes down to low E (i.e. transposed to an Eb on the Bb bass), then you
have your answer.

Otherwise, yes the composer was an idiot :) -- I'd agree with Philip.

Mike
<<

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