Klarinet Archive - Posting 000381.txt from 2002/11

From: "William Semple" <wsemple@-----.com>
Subj: Re: [kl] Tuning for ensembles and larger
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 23:05:16 -0500

I have listened to music for, oh, 40 years, played orchestras, written for
magazines, served on symphony orchestra and opera staffs. Studied. Taken
music theory. Attended hundreds of concerts. So on. What I describe is what
I believe to be a generally accepted notion, not an absolute truth that
applies in every case. Therefore, your exceptions do not rule out the
generalization that minor keys TEND to sound "darker," "moodier,"
"different" than major keys.

Nor am I confusing a physical reaction with scientific absolutes as your
propose, largely because the emotive content of music escapes scientific
analysis since so much of it is based on experience.

Someone not familiar with Western music might not recognize the difference
between a minor and major triad.

I am saying that to those familiar with Western classical tradition, music
written in minors key generally has a different and I argue "darker"
emotional character than music written in major keys, based on a
preponderance of the evidence, exceptions noted, and a comparison of works
by the same composers. Note that many pieces with a minor key signature can
contain much thematic material in a major key.

The key signature is a conscious choice. Why would Beethoven choose a minor
key in one instance and a major in another?

Why do you suppose that jazz adopted two minor notes in the "Blues" scale?
What is it about Blues notes, derived from the flattened quartertone, that
gives it its "sad" character. I remember as a child how Leonard Bernstein
on early television described the minor 3rd as such an important emotional
note when he played Twinkle Twinkle Little Star, inserting the minor 3rd at
just the right moment, illustrating how blues notes could change the entire
sentiment conveyed by that otherwise happy tune!

Now, if someone has grown up in an environment where a minor third connotes
happiness, than this theory holds no water in the specific instance. And
while there may be a scientific explanation for the different affects of
certain types of music on mood, just as there are theories why woman and men
are attracted to one another, all I am saying is that I believe that minor
keys produce a moodier, more brooding result than major keys in the Western
classical tradition. Not in every case. But in general.

I happen to love minor keys. The Brahms Clarinet Quintet, which I love to
play, is one example of how a great composer can feel thoroughly at home in
the minor keys, creating tonal characteristics that are truly unique to
Brahms' chamber music.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel Leeson" <leeson0@-----.net>
Subject: Re: [kl] Tuning for ensembles and larger

> William Semple wrote:
> >>William, are you suggesting that keys have emotions associated with
them?
> >
> > For example, A major is a "happier" key then D-flat? And are you also
> > suggesting that modes (for example, the minor mode) also have
> > emotions associated with them, such as sadness for the minor mode?<
> >
> >
> > Taking your last point first, I certainly hear and feel and emotional
> > differences between major and minor triads and their derivatives: minor
keys
> > tend to be darker, more solemn, spiritual, contemplative, moody. I say
> > "tend."
> >
> > One of the classic examples of a triad shift is "I Love Paris," which
moves
> > from the minor into the major in a nifty breathless kind of way, or in
the
> > Brahms Symphony #1, in C minor, which resolves into a dramatic and
exultant
> > major during the 3rd movement. ( I believe the Mahler Resurrection
Symphony
> > #2, does the same upon entrance of the chorus).
> >
> > Other comparisons would be between the Beethoven 5th in C minor compared
to
> > his 7th, in A major and to his 9th in D minor. The Mozart Quintet in A
vs.
> > the Brahms Quintet in B minor. The Brahms Trio for Piano, Clarinet and
> > Cello in A minor, as opposed to the Beethoven and Mozart trios in Bb
major
> > and Eb major respectively. Others that come to mind are the Mozart 40th
> > Symphony (in G minor) as opposed to his #41, in C Major. Too entirely
> > different works. Schubert's Unfinished in B minor vs. "The Great," #9 in
C
> > Major, or #3 in D Major.
> >
> > Especially Bach's frequent resolution from minors to that final major
earth
> > shaking blast that rocks the church.
> >
> > I also have always felt chords that drop notes l/2 steps at certain
> > intervals, especially the third, but others as well, including
diminished,
> > minor 7ths, and the "Blues notes," which are a minor third, whole step,
half
> > step, half step, minor third and whole step -- to sound darker than
major
> > keys.
> >
> > But not every minor note is necessarily dark, e.g., the dominant 7th can
be
> > quite upbeat because the chord includes a major 3rd and a minor 7th.
Drop
> > the 3rd to a minor, and tears start to fall. :) or better :( Such
sadness!
> > Woe is moi!
> >
> > What is needed at minimum is a triad of some kind -- a root, third, and
> > fifth that determines the "quality" of the chord -- major, minor or
> > dominant. Why a minor third makes so much difference in emotional
> > perception, I don't know.
> >
> > As far as keys are concerned, I find that when the I play in G, D, or A,
C
> > major as opposed to F or Bb, Eb major the sound tends to sound brighter,
or
> > more upbeat. But this is probably more of a function about how I lay my
> > fingers on the instrument -- the play of the keys -- than in any
intrinsic
> > emotional relationship between a major key and the key itself (e.g., Bb
> > major shouldn't sound any happier or sadder than A major).
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Daniel Leeson" <leeson0@-----.net>
> > To: <klarinet@-----.org>
> > Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 3:54 PM
> > Subject: Re: [kl] Tuning for ensembles and larger
> >
> >
> >
> >>--
> >>***************************
> >>**Dan Leeson **
> >>**leeson0@-----.net **
> >>***************************
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
>
> No one could argue that you feel a certain way on hearing certain
> things. But are you suggesting this to be a universal physical truth?
> The exhalation you propose as being present in a certain work as it
> shifts from C minor to C major. Would it not be present if the work
> shifted from E minor to E major (for example)?
>
> What I am saying is that you have every right to feel the way you do and
> for any reason. But for you to suggest that this is a phenomenon that
> affects (or should affect) everyone in the same way, is not only unclear
> to me, but a big stretch.
>
> As for major versus minor modes, some of the happiest music I know of is
> in minor keys. Bach wrote exaltant works in minor keys. The
> Mendelssohn octet scherzo is in a minor key and appears to me, at least,
> to be a happy work.
>
> Are you confusing your own personal reaction with physical truth?
>
> --
> ***************************
> **Dan Leeson **
> **leeson0@-----.net **
> ***************************
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------

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