Klarinet Archive - Posting 000212.txt from 2002/11

From: "William Semple" <wsemple@-----.com>
Subj: Re: [kl] Why Bb? (was: reverse Mozart)
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2002 15:23:48 -0500

I meant ad hominem. Darn spell checker.

----- Original Message -----
From: "William Semple" <wsemple@-----.com>
Subject: Re: [kl] Why Bb? (was: reverse Mozart)

> I dutifully apologize for any ad homonym comments made by me to anyone on
> this listserve. However, take them out, and the rest of my comments stand.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Daniel Leeson" <leeson0@-----.net>
> To: <klarinet@-----.org>
> Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 1:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [kl] Why Bb? (was: reverse Mozart)
>
>
> > Nancy, I am being nice. I'm not responding to the message which is as
> > nice as it gets.
> >
> > Dan
> >
> >
> > Buckman, Nancy wrote:
> > > Boys, boys, boys, let's be nice.
> > >
> > > Nancy
> > >
> > > Nancy E. Buckman, Technical Assistant
> > > School of Health Professions, Wellness and Physical Education
> > > Anne Arundel Community College
> > > Arnold, MD 21012-1895 USA
> > > Phone 410-777-2316 Fax 410-777-2233
> > > E-mail nebuckman@-----.edu
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: William Semple [mailto:wsemple@-----.com]
> > > Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 1:59 PM
> > > To: klarinet@-----.org
> > > Subject: Re: [kl] Why Bb? (was: reverse Mozart)
> > >
> > >
> > > Do you apply this kind of thinking to ethics?
> > >
> > > Measurable. You sound like Julian Hirsch of Stereo Review. Can't
measure
> the
> > > difference between a Strad and a violin bought off of the shelf! What
> > > difference could varnish possibly make?
> > >
> > > The human ear is capable of astounding degrees of differentiation that
> go
> > > beyond the capabilities of our finest electronic instruments. That's
> why, as
> > > an audio reviewer, I could long detect the differences between CDs and
> vinyl
> > > recordings. That's why they still haven't been able to build a robot
> that
> > > can drive a car; or a microphone that responds the same way as the ear
> drum.
> > >
> > > Surely there are measurable differences between orchestras. That we
> can't
> > > measure them using known scientific criteria doesn't mean they aren't
> > > measurable. Hence we rely on one aspect of the human mind you like to
> deny:
> > > critical judgment, and the commonly accepted nothing that experience
> > > provides some basis for making such judgments: e.g., Vermeer is
probably
> a
> > > better painter than you.
> > >
> > > I had a friend who had an astounding ear.
> > > Once, I twirled six recordings (blind) of the Brahms 1: Chicago/Solti;
> > > Berlin/Von Karajan; London/Boult; Pittsburgh/Steinberg; Vienna/can't
> > > remember; Cleveland/Ormandy.
> > >
> > > SHE GOT EVERY ONE OF THEM.
> > >
> > > Now, what were the clues? Probably the ten things that you mention.
The
> > > sound of mass violins; the phrasing on various notes section by
section;
> the
> > > sound of the oboe; the coherence of the brass section; the intonation
of
> the
> > > entire orchestra; the intonation of the woodwind section; the
> interpretation
> > > by the conductor.
> > >
> > > What you are denying is the concept of critical judgment. Truth in the
> mind
> > > of the beholder basically states that there is no truth about anything
> > > musical except as a single individual sees it. Which means standards
> have no
> > > meaning, and clarinet manufacturers can build whatever they want. Who
> cares?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Daniel Leeson" <leeson0@-----.net>
> > > To: <klarinet@-----.org>
> > > Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 11:25 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [kl] Why Bb? (was: reverse Mozart)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >>William Semple wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>Here we go again. Daniel Leeson writes:
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>How your a clarinet of particular pitch responds to you is a matter
> with
> > >>>>so many variables beyond those of the clarinet itself (your body,
your
> > >>>>teeth, your sinuses, for example) that how you perceive the
> physicality
> > >>>>of playing would appear to have no standard or even, for that
matter,
> be
> > >>>>standarizable.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>It's like talking about whether Beethoven's 3rd piano concerto is a
> > >>>>better piece than Brahms' 2nd. It's all in the mind of the
beholder.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>To say that one piece is not better than another because its merit is
> > >>>strictly in the mind of the beholder belies the unassailable fact
that
> > >>
> > > over
> > >
> > >>>time, certain orchestral pieces, through public opinion, critical
> > >>
> > > notice,
> > >
> > >>>and adoption by the musical community, ARE considered superior works
> > >>
> > > (sic.,
> > >
> > >>>"better").
> > >>
> > >>I think that "Yes We Have No Bananas" is a better piece than
Beethoven's
> > >>9th symphony. The fact that you and 30,000 others think the opposite
is
> > >>a nice thing, but does not make it true. Goodness, greatness, and
other
> > >>things that are not really definable, is not a function of popularity
or
> > >>democracy. It is, as I said earlier, in the mind of the beholder.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>I think the issue regarding schools of playing is also a fair one.
> > >>
> > > Surely,
> > >
> > >>>the traditions at the Vienna Philharmonic as opposed to Chicago are
> > >>>distinctive enough to merit discussion; surely various approaches to
> > >>
> > > playing
> > >
> > >>>an instrument can be accorded the same privilege.
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>Give me 10 specific things in which the traditions of the Vienna Phil
> > >>are measurably different from those of the Chicago Symphony. And they
> > >>must be measurable. If they are not, you have no business suggesting
> > >>that a distinction between the two exist. And while we are at it,
what
> > >>exactly do you mean by "various approaches to playing" within the
> > >>context of Vienna and Chicago?
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>--
> > >>***************************
> > >>**Dan Leeson **
> > >>**leeson0@-----.net **
> > >>***************************
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > ***************************
> > **Dan Leeson **
> > **leeson0@-----.net **
> > ***************************
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------

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