Klarinet Archive - Posting 000120.txt from 2002/11

From: "William Semple" <wsemple@-----.com>
Subj: Re: [kl] Lower Lip Not Folded Over Teeth (was Sharp Teeth)
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 13:58:23 -0500

Great stuff!!

Thanks for refreshing my memory. The lessons I referred to were in
1972-1976.

The issue may be a matter of degree and definition. In my embouchure, my
lips rest more or less naturally near the top of and slightly on top my
teeth. I don't make any extra effort to "fold" my lip, per se, but there is
a natural and comfortable curl to the lip. My goal is to employ the software
tissue of the lip rather than the bottom.

My upper teeth rest comfortable, and lightly, on the top of the mouthpiece.
It wouldn't take much to complete a double embouchure transition from this
position.

So I don't know how this classifies my embouchure.

The extreme, I guess, would be to purse the lips in a certain way to expose
more "soft tissue." This I do not do.

----- Original Message -----
From: <CGBeale@-----.com>
Subject: [kl] Lower Lip Not Folded Over Teeth (was Sharp Teeth)

> Ken Shaw wrote: I'd really like to read the Weigand dissertation.
>
> The Weigand treatise on Marcellus is available only through interlibrary
loan
> from the Florida State University library. They have one circulating copy
> which you can locate at the FSU library web site. The library would not
loan
> it to me through my local public library, and I only got it through my
> brother-in-law who is on the faculty of a major university and who
requested
> it through his library. When I discovered it is not available through
> University Microfilms I called John Weigand. He told me he didn't even
have
> a printed copy of the treatise and that he did not make it available
through
> UMI because at the time he wrote the treatise Marcellus did not want the
> document widely circulated. You can contact John at West Virginia
> University. His e-mail address and telephone number are available at the
> www.wvu.edu web site.
>
> William Semple wrote: John Colbert...studied with Harold Wright...Colbert
was
> a double-lipper, but I certainly do not recall his curling his lip over
his
> teeth, top or bottom.
>
> I know nothing about how John Colbert played, but I can tell you a little
> about Harold Wright's use of the double lip embouchure. Many years ago,
when
> I was studying with Harold he suggested that I consider trying the double
lip
> embouchure. He described how he formed his embouchure. I distinctly
> remember him saying that he covered (folded over) the edge of his upper
teeth
> with only a very small amount of his upper lip and that he covered the
edge
> of his lower teeth with considerably more of his lower lip. In 1969
Harold
> gave a talk on the double lip embouchure at the International Clarinet
Clinic
> in Denver. This morning I've reread portions of a transcript of that talk
> which confirms my memory.
>
> Ken Shaw wrote: Robert Marcellus was a special case, too. He was
diabetic,
> which produces many health problems.
>
> I suspect Marcellus had already formed his embouchure by the time he
> discovered he had diabetes in 1949/1950. He began studying with Bonade in
> 1944 and by 1950 had already played in the National Symphony and the Air
> Force Band.
>
> Ken Shaw wrote: I once worked for a couple months on strengthening my
(double
> lip) embouchure so I could support the mouthpiece with my lower lip
outside
> my teeth....I took it to Kalmen Opperman for a lesson. He listened for 5
> seconds and told me to stop. He said the tone produced by an "outside the
> lips" embouchure lacked center and resonance and was too unstable to be
> reliable.
>
> In my earlier message, I deliberately cited Portnoy and Marcellus as
examples
> of clarinetists who used an embouchure where they did not fold the lower
lip
> over their lower teeth. I personally don't think either produced a tone
that
> lacked center and resonance.
>
> In the November - December 1988 issue of The Clarinet Marcellus said:
>
> "During my Cleveland career I had tried the double lip embouchure during
the
> course of two or three seasons, not continuously, but for periods of
several
> months at a time. I finally realized that it was possible to obtain the
> salutary effects of both embouchures -- the shape of sound and freedom of
> wind that one gets with a double lip, plus the larger sound, I feel, one
can
> obtain with a single lip -- by placing the teeth on the mouthpiece, but by
> using the muscles of the upper lip in a manner similar to their use in the
> double embouchure."
>
> Ever since reading that quote I've wondered if Marcellus continued not to
> fold his lower lip over his lower teeth while folding his upper lip over
his
> upper teeth when he experimented with the double lip embouchure. Maybe
Greg
> Smith or another Marcellus student has the answer to that question.
>
> Clarence Beale
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>

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