Klarinet Archive - Posting 000655.txt from 2002/05

From: "mlmarmer" <mlmarmer@-----.com>
Subj: [kl] Clara Schumann
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 18:50:04 -0400

There is a great book about Clara Schumann by Nancy B. Reich, "Clara
Schumann The Artist and the Woman" and there is no mention of Robert having
Syphilis and Clara had eight children and 7 lived to a ripe old age for the
1800's, several into the 1900's. He suffered form "nerve illness" that
effected him most of his life the last 10 to 15 years. Nerve illness is like
a very bad cold, with great weakness, cold, fever, aches, pains, caused by
anxiety and melancholia, depression, basically. He suffered physical and
mental breakdowns.

Clara's father just didn't like the guy. Robert was basically a depressed
person and died in 1856. Brahm's was many years younger than Clara, and
they could of married, since they both live in to the late 1800's. Brahms
died in 1897 and Clara in 1896, some 40 years longer than Robert, so Clara
was available. Robert did have an affair before Clara.

Clara's and Robert's children were Marie (1841-1916), Elise (1843-1928),
Julie (1845-1872 ), Emil (1846-1847), Ludwig (1848-1899), Ferdinand
(1849-1891), Eugenie (1851-1938) and Felix (1854-1879), so only one died as
an infant and all had pretty long lives for the times. Many had problems.
Marie was with Clara till the end, as a companion.

Clara and women had a hard life in the 1800's. Women basically played Piano
to entertain families, reason why piano sales in the early 1800's boomed.
It was unheard of for a woman to have a career earning money. She made more
money than Robert and was the breadwinner in the family, as Robert became
more and more depressed.

Women were not allowed to travel alone as she did. She played up until the
day she gave birth. She was a cold mother for the most part, as she didn't
care about Felix's need for her in the end and he died alone. There is no
mention in this book about them having Syphilis. Nancy has done allot of
research on her.

It been several years since I read this book, but Clara's father JUST hated
the guy, like in many marriages of today. Robert was many years older than
Clara. Clara's father was a music teacher to Robert for awhile.

Robert and Clara didn't see each other for 1 and half years during the
courtship. They wrote letters to keep in touch while engaged.

I highly recommend this book, as Clara had allot talent and wrote allot,
that is not played much or recorded in the music world.

Mike Marmer
----- Original Message -----
From: <MVinquist@-----.com>
Subject: RE: [kl] More Brahms Trivia

>
> There was a discussion of the Brahms/bordello story on the AMS (American
> Musicological Society) list about a year ago in the context of the
> reliability of various Brahms biographies.
>
> The true version is apparently the non-sensational one. Brahms gigged
around
> in various clubs, but the bordello story is simply embroidery, with no
basis
> in any historical data.
>
> Also, Brahms was desperately in love with Clara Schumann. The speculation
is
> that, at least during his adulthood, the reason he never married was that
> Clara was unavailable. There's further speculation that Robert Schumann
> had syphilis, which was the reason for his insanity and why Clara's father
> opposed the marriage. He was reconciled only when Clara had apparently
> healthy children. However, the all died young, perhaps indicating
congenital
> syphilis. If Clara contracted syphilis from Robert, that would explain
why
> she and Brahms didn't marry.
>
> I haven't read anything to indicate that Brahms was closeted gay, but it's
> certainly a possibility.
>
> Best regards.
>
> Ken Shaw
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>

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