Klarinet Archive - Posting 000738.txt from 2002/04
From: "Paolo Leva" <paolo.leva@-----.se>
Subj: Re: [kl] Tony Pay, Articulation and K. 622
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 12:40:47 -0400
What are the editions that in your opinions get closer to the original
manuscripts, according to what you and Pay hold. I have the Barenreiter
editions of the concert and 2 editions for the quintet: the "Breitkopf &
Hartel" (with really lots of long slurs) and the Peters edition. It would be
surely interesting to "try out" (as Anthony Pay says) a different way of
phrasing, but I need to have some source.
I also wonder whether these arguments apply to Weber as well, being him both
a classicist and a preromantic. I have both the Breitkopf & Hartel and the
Peters edition of the first concert and they differ quite a lot, not only in
slurs but even in notes, ornamentation and so on. Being the Breitkopf &
Hartel much more edited, and much similar, for instance, to what Leister
plays.
I have looked for articles or books about Weber, with special regard to his
clarinet music, performance tradition and so on, but found very little. I
probably look in the wrong places, could anyone help me?
-paolo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel Leeson" <leeson0@-----.net>
Subject: Re: [kl] Tony Pay, Articulation and K. 622
> And there is yet another reason to commend Tony for his emphasis on
> tonguing rather than slurring many passages. It is far more defensible
> historically than any other phrasing technique. The bulk of the
> manuscripts in Mozart's hand and that use clarinets in florid passages
> (for example, K. 375, 388, 361, the Parto aria, K. 452 to name just a
> few, and each of which is a major clarinet work) show very clear and
> unambiguous descriptions of how Mozart's notates his clarinet parts. And
> the fact is indisputable that many of those passages that have appeared
> in earlier editions as slurred are in fact not slurred at all in the
> manuscript. Some editor concluded that the passages should be slurred,
> not Mozart.
>
> The occasional response to this anomoly was always to presume that
> Mozart was either lazy ("he didn't want to write all those slurs") or
> stupid ("didn't Mozart realize that tongues don't move that fast?").
> But the fact is that the surface texture of 18th century music was much
> rougher than we are led to believe by editors from the Romantic period
> of music (such as Brahms himself) who wanted the long line,
> uninterrupted by the use of start-stop articulation.
>
> The very worst case of this penchant for the long line and the non-use
> of the tongue may be found in the Ricordi edition of K. 622, which every
> Italian clarinet player grew up on because, as Tony mentioned, it was
> the only authorized edition in the Italian conservatories for a long
> time.
>
> So what Tony has helped do, is restore a practice that never should have
> been elminated, and would not have been had not the Romantic period
> relegated the use of the tongue to a great more inactivity than it had
> been used to in the late 1700s and early 1800s.
>
> Dan Leeson
>
> HatNYC62@-----.com wrote:
> >
> > In a message dated 4/25/02 4:13:32 AM, klarinet-digest-help@-----.org
> > writes:
> >
> > << If I come clean about that recording, I have to say that I now don't
> > play so much staccato, and it's all changed rather a lot in other ways
> > too. Part of that is to do with getting better technically on the
> > instrument. What's not often realised is that staccato is actually in
> > many ways *easier* than legato, particularly on a period instrument,
> > because you can control the weight of individual notes more precisely.
> > If you have to slur, it's harder to make the passagework even -- but
> > sometimes the end result is more satisfactory, even if you're less
> > comfortable. >>
> >
> > Folks, read this paragraph and learn.
> >
> > Tony Pay is one of the best and most impressive models of great
articulation
> > on the clarinet in the last 50 years. And great technique in general,
for
> > that matter.
> >
> > Before I learned how to tongue properly and comprehensively in college,
I
> > wondered about Tony's K. 622 recording and all the tonguing.
> >
> > But after I learned proper articulation and particularly the stopped
> > stacatto/prepared fingers technique from Mr. Marcellus, I realized what
Tony
> > says above is true. . .technically it is FAR EASIER to play a passage
cleanly
> > if you tongue it rather than slur it. This will be doubly true on an old
> > instrument with many cross-fingerings and stuffy notes.
> >
> > Now of course, if the passage is faster than you can tongue, this
doesn't
> > apply (Tony can tongue very fast, probably even faster than I). And
mixed
> > articulations can be more difficult than EITHER all slurred or all
tongued.
> >
> > If you don't believe me (or Tony) your articulation probably needs some
work.
> > It is a part of clarinet technique that is rarely taught well or even
> > understood. All the important details are in Daniel Bonade's compendium.
That
> > book and some of Tony's recordings and Robert Marcellus's and Clark
Brody's
> > and Karl Leister's should help.
> >
> > David Hattner, NYC
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> --
> ***************************
> ** Dan Leeson **
> ** leeson0@-----.net **
> ***************************
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
