Klarinet Archive - Posting 000106.txt from 2002/02

From: Richard Bush <rbushidioglot@-----.com>
Subj: Re: [kl] Solti and Barenboim
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 16:31:50 -0500

Gentlemen,

First, let me say, I am enjoying is discourse and respect your separate
perspectives.

Some of what has been said about conductors has to do with their
"schtick" technique. Being able to read the conductor is (and should be)
an issue for any ensemble.

The second part has to do with whether the ensemble collectively buys
the ideas about the music at hand. In this regard, the conductor might
need to be a good salesman, particularly if he's trying to play
something "differently." This would seem to be, in my mind, particularly
important to the final product of concert and/or recording session if
the chemistry isn't there.

A third part of the equation (at least in my mind) has to do with the
personal interaction between conductors and players. If the conductor is
insulting or attacks individuals of the "established" ensemble, how does
this fly, and how does it (if it indeed does) play into the equation?
The reverse might be the world's nicest person doing a mediocre job.

Your respective comments are welcomed.

Gregory Smith wrote:

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tony Pay" <Tony@-----.uk>
> To: <klarinet@-----.org>
> Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2002 12:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [kl] Solti and Barenboim
>
> Tony Pay:
>
>>We've had this sort of discussion before here. I tend to represent the
>>notion that someone who does arguably wrong things even superlatively
>>well is just as criticisable as someone who does arguably right things
>>less well. I thought that quite a lot of Solti fell into the former
>>category, though that's just a personal opinion, I know.
>>
>
> Gregory Smith:
> Tony, I see your point and indeed have not seen this particular subject discussed here at Klarinet. I and many others here at the CSO do have a different opinion re: your two viewpoints vis-a-vis these two maestros. I suppose that it all perhaps depends on what one considers "right" and "wrong" to begin with?
>
>
>>Of course Solti was a maestro. On the other hand, when at Covent
>>Garden, he blocked the career of Reginald Goodall, who subsequently
>>conducted all of Wagner at the Coliseum to great acclaim, saying, "It is
>>not a question of how well he conducts. He simply cannot conduct at
>>all."
>>
>
> Setting aside for a moment obvious sour grapes, even this assessment would be considered here and by many to be OTT. As an aside, the great conductor George Szell was an arch enemy of Sir Rudolph Bing who was head of the Metropolitan Opera. Upon hearing from others that "George Szell is his own worst enemy", Bing was heard to retort "Not as long as I'm alive, he's not!".
>
>
>>I'm more than happy, on the other hand, to call Barenboim 'maestro',
>>even though, as I indicated, I recognise that he transmits his
>>musicianship in a, how shall we say, less expert manner, on the podium.
>>
>
> Yes and then No. I think musicianship is what is on the table in assessments from these CSO orchestra members also.
>
> Let's face it, they both are not model communicators with their stick technique compared to a Kleiber or Szell or Maazel (now there's someone that is eccentric or perhaps considered "wrong" by many because of their interpretations but has some of the best communicative skills around). But musical ideas regarding interpretive style and even competency, expressly communicated from them directly to the Chicago Symphony Orchestra have risen and fallen on their own merit. Respectfully, the overall judgement here seems to be dissimilar to yours, that's all.
>
> Best to you!
>
> Greg

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