Klarinet Archive - Posting 000598.txt from 2002/01
From: "Gene Nibbelin" <gnibbelin@-----.com>
Subj: RE: [kl] re: CNN Headline News
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 23:03:30 -0500
MR. Winkleman --
This is a Clarinet list!!! It is not an appropriate venue for slandering
corporate business and venting your socialist ramblings.
I am a retired banker whose career was spent as an economist, a stock
analyst, portfolio manager and senior trust officer. I believe that I am no
doubt better qualified to express opinions about corporate America than you.
But this is not the place for it. If you wish to argue the relative merits
and successes of capitalism vs. socialism, lets do it off-list. I am sure
that all the listers will greatly appreciate it.
Gene Nibbelin
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Winkelman [mailto:bwink@-----.com]
Subject: RE: [kl] re: CNN Headline News
Ok, Walter, there might be some exceptions. I understand that Texaco has
been a long-term friend or the Metropolitan Opera, for example. I do have
some enhanced respect for Texaco in this regard. And I'm sure that such
giving regularly supports fine music all over the world. Still, I see the
primary value for corporations is to provide good jobs for people. For me,
this is the real value of corporations for society. But more and more I see
the larger corporations treat their employees like so much machinery - -
objects to be turned on or off, and finally discarded as convenience
dictates.
Over the past few weeks, we have seen a major retailer draw night to
bankruptcy. This major retailer has always been a company that tried to
provide good long-term job prospects for those employees who wish to pursue
them. Their major competitor - - the company that is responsible for
driving them out of business - - is a very different sort of animal: (1) it
pays employees much less, (2) it does its best to make sure that their
employees don't stay long enough to become vested in profit sharing or
pension plans, (3) it constantly assaults these same employees with
corporate propaganda about what a great and generous company they work for,
when the facts clearly say otherwise. So extensive and sophisticated is
this company's propaganda machine that I would not be at all surprised if
they tried to put something out to counter what I am saying now. This
corporation is truly evil, yet through propaganda, most consider them to be
almost saintly.
Charitable giving by corporations does do some good, I admit, but in the
final analysis, I'm far more inclined to judge a corporation by the
charitableness with which they treat their own employees. Far too often,
charitable giving by corporations is for image only. Providing good jobs
for people does society far more good and alleviates the need for charitable
giving.
-----Original Message-----
From: GrabnerWG@-----.com]
Subject: RE: [kl] re: CNN Headline News
Bill says <<Don't American companies get a tax break for their giving? If
it were not for this fact, I can't imagine why American Mega-corps would
have given even a penny-perhaps to propagandize the public or their own
employees. The 'bottom line' is all that counts for corporate America>>
Bill, I think that's overly harsh.
We have certainly seen HORRIBLE corporate greed in this country, over and
over. Look at the "leveraged buy-out" craze of the '80's, and the dot-com
boom and bust of last year.
But it is also true that many, many corporations try to be "good citizens"
and give at least something back to their communities; local, regional, and
national.
I can think of dozens of classical music organizations that would have died
on the vine with out business support. Yes, the corporations get good-will
publicity, and a bit of a tax break.
But remember, it's still their money to spend, and hundreds of thousands,
millions, of dollars, go into charities, good causes, and arts, every year.
Walter Grabner
www.clarinetXpress.com
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