Klarinet Archive - Posting 000161.txt from 2001/12

From: "Karl Krelove" <kkrelove@-----.com>
Subj: RE: [kl] Material...was: Clarinet Bores - not me - the internal dimension kind.
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 22:51:10 -0500

One consideration that never, or rarely, gets into these discussions about
the effect of materials on the playing characteristics of instruments is the
workability of the material itself. We've seen this implied in some of our
mouthpiece discussions. If the material cannot be worked (machined, carved,
reamed, etc.) to the specifications that have been found (empirically,
intuitively, or otherwise) to produce the most desirable playing
characteristics, then the material has had a very profound effect on those
characteristics, one of paramount importance being tone quality or timbre. I
suspect, without much thought, that balsa would be unsuitable because it's
too soft to machine accurately - it would crumble, as would cork and a lot
of the synthetic compounds people make cheap consumer products out of. To an
extent, it may be unnecessary to prove scientifically that x material is
acoustically inferior to y. If it needs to be worked differently, any
changes in design forced by these mechanical differences might be enough in
themselves to explain an empirical observation that the tone was different.
Grenadilla is an extremely hard wood which needs somewhat specialized tools
and techniques from makers of grenadilla clarinets. Apparently, Greenline
composite requires still other tools and techniques. To make a glass
clarinet would present some really unique challenges because of the
material's physical characteristics. Can the maker really be certain, if the
construction techniques must be different, that the end result is really
physically the same - never mind any indemonstrable (and perhaps spurious)
differences in the materials' acoustical properties?

Karl Krelove

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Daniel Leeson [mailto:leeson0@-----.net]
> Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 1:15 PM
> To: klarinet@-----.org
> Subject: Re: [kl] Material...was: Clarinet Bores - not me - the internal
> dimension kind.
>
>
> Bill, I am sorry to be in a position of total opposition to what you
> have said about the value of the medium in the production of tone, but
> you have nothing but your intuition to support your beliefs.
>
> I have read what you wrote looking for some germ of scientific evidence
> and all I get is a collection of statements invented to justify your
> predetermined belief. In almost every case, you say that the various
> media produced different sound characters but you fail to explain how
> you determined this to be the case. Further, the terms you use to
> describe the materials that you happen not to like ("blah" was one such
> term, "nice" was another, "a bit less 'complex'" was a third, though I
> am not sure what the difference is between complex and "complex") are
> simply expressions of your personal taste, not a scientific description
> the the tonal characteristics.
>
> While there are some limitations on the instrument's medium (I suspect
> that balsa wood would not be suitable, though I'm not sure why), in
> general the sound produced on almost any medium (glass, wood, metal,
> etc.) will be unaffected by the medium.
>
> I add also that intuition is sometimes the fastest road to being
> inaccurate, and your opening statement about what "we clarinetists" is
> very much a case in point.
>
> Dan
>
> GrabnerWG@-----.com wrote:
> >
> > << The assumption that material has little or no effect on tone ......>>
> >
> > I am going to dispute this assumption, and dispute it vigorously.
> >
> > Material DOES make a difference, and we as clarinetists know
> that instinctively.
> >
> > Now stop, and read the rest, before you react!
> >
> > Within the above assumption, lies an unspoken one; namely, that
> anything other than Grenadilla (African Blackwwod) makes an
> INFERIOR tone. I do not believe this is true at all.
> >
> > Over the past several years, I have made barrels of several
> different materials. I have made them of molded urethane, and
> machined and hand reamed delrin, cocobolo, and grenadilla.
> >
> > Each material has its own unique sound, even given the fact
> that I have used the same tooling and the same general set of
> measurements.
> >
> > I do not particularly like the Urethane. It is rather blah, and
> too "light". (Although one of these, can significally improve a
> plastic student horn.)
> >
> > The Delrin makes a very nice sound, if a bit less "complex"
> than the wood. It does make a barrel that projects extremely well.
> >
> > The Cocobolo makes a very "warm" and unified sound throughout
> the various registers of the clarinet.
> >
> > Grenadilla, we all know.
> >
> > Of the above materials, I currently prefer the Cocobolo,
> although I want to try cocus wood and rosewood as well. I prefer
> my cocobolo barrel (made for myself) to my Buffet-Moennig or
> Chadash barrels.
> >
> > What is it then, that makes the difference in sound?
> >
> > I believe that "vibration" of, or within, the material, if
> there is any at all, makes little if any difference.
> >
> > I do believe, however, that the INNER SURFACE of the material
> makes a great difference. I believe one of the reasons that we
> like wood, is the fact that it has a grain and irregularities in
> the surface. If you look closely at any piece of polished wood,
> you can see that it still has a unique surface and slight
> indentations that you cannot polish out.
> >
> > I believe that this irregular surface causes,somehow (I am not
> a physicist), a richness and complexity in the tone. I think, for
> example, that Delrin makes a nice barrel in that it cannot be
> polished totally smooth - like plastic can - it still retains
> some texture.
> >
> > This, to me, is the reason that the Greenline clarinets work as
> well, there is enough "graininess" left in the material, due to
> the grenadilla wood dust, to create a proper surface texture.
> >
> > Please let me know....I know you all WILL.....what you think of
> my hypothesis.
> >
> > Walter Grabner
> > www.clarinetxpress.com
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> --
> ***************************
> ** Dan Leeson **
> ** leeson0@-----.net **
> ***************************
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>

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