Klarinet Archive - Posting 000145.txt from 2001/12

From: Daniel Leeson <leeson0@-----.net>
Subj: Re: [kl] Material...was: Clarinet Bores - not me - the internal
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 17:24:19 -0500

Walt, when you suggest that you decide things on the basis of how you
like them and how you hear them, no one can argue with you. It is to be
expected that you, as a reasonable and responsible person, would do such
a thing.

But when you make the transition from the impact of your perception of
sound character on yourself to the much broader one of offering that
opinion as being true for everyone, then we have an almost unbreachable
difference of opinion.

Throwing out queries to me such as "And what would you have me do?"
(though that is only a paraphrase of the words you did use), is of no
value. What I expect you to do, as I would expect from anyone making
such broad technical assertions, is to support them with evidence that
shows there to be a scientific basis for such claims. I sit here
waiting to be convinced by the weight of evidence. And all I get is
that this is the way you feel and, therefore, the truisms you offer are
valid, universal, and eternal.

I don't think we are going to get anywhere arguing on this matter, and
that's OK. People will always disagree on this and many issues related
to clarinet playing. But I did not want others on this list
(particularly younger players who may think that you said something that
was factual and universally agreed-to on this subject) to presume that,
in the absence of contrary opinions, everyone was in agreement with your
views.

And I don't not accept one word of your assertion that you could tell a
glass mouthpiece being played given rigorous scientific conditions in a
serious, structured test of your (or anyone's) abilities in this arena.
I'll go further. In a blind test, you would be unable to distinguish
either the clarinet material or the mouthpiece material were any or all
of them to be wood, glass, plastic, bamboo (I guess that's wood, too),
or metal. Your is a claim that is easy to make, but I don't believe it
has any substance.

DNL

GrabnerWG@-----.com wrote:
>
> Dan Leeson said:
>
> <<I have read what you wrote looking for some germ of scientific evidence and all I get is a collection of statements invented to justify your predetermined belief.>>
>
> What scientific evidence would you accept. What evidence would you be able to interpret? What if the scientific "evidence" said there was a significant difference but our ears couldn't hear it?
>
> << In almost every case, you say that the various
> media produced different sound characters but you fail to explain how you determined this to be the case.>>
>
> By listening Dan, listening. Like we determine almost all other musical criteria. I also go by the comments of others whose opinions I respect.
>
> When ten different people come up to me and say, hmmmmm...that sounds different...I like that......isn't that evidence?
>
> << Further, the terms you use to describe the materials that you happen not to like ("blah" was one such term, "nice" was another, "a bit less 'complex'" was a third, though I am not sure what the difference is between complex and "complex") are simply expressions of your personal taste, not a scientific description the the tonal characteristics.>>
>
> Yes, because I use my personal taste to guide me in my selection of reeds, mouthpieces, instruments, etc.
>
> What/whose other criteria should I use?
>
> You know, I LOVE to stir up controversies like these. I also know we won't SETTLE anything here. But, I do like to stir up the common beliefs though.
>
> You asked me about my "personal" beliefs. I'll tell you one thing. About two years ago, I embarked on a journey, to find out what worked best for me. This is not just an EQUIPMENT search, but a way to find my way into the next higher level of clarinet artistry.
>
> One thing I found out was that a lot of the things I believed, had accepted as fact, just because some "authority" had told me that fact, were, in the final analysis......wrong.
>
> Now, I am my own authority. If it works for me, great. If it doesn't, I move on.
>
> Let me ask a question. Can't you, with a high degree of accuracy, tell when someone is playing on a glass mouthpiece? I believe you could. I think I can.
>
> If that is true, wouldn't that support my belief that material does make a difference?
>
> Walter
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------

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** Dan Leeson **
** leeson0@-----.net **
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