Klarinet Archive - Posting 000134.txt from 2001/12

From: Daniel Leeson <leeson0@-----.net>
Subj: Re: [kl] Beethoven 2, embellish Larghetto?
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 14:03:53 -0500

Well, Tony, I cannot disagree with much of what you write. It is true
that it is not impermissable to do the same thing at several different
performances, but too much of that and one loses the sense of
impetuosity; i.e., it sounds as if it were pre-prepared and, while that
is also not impermissable, the point of an improvisation is to bring
freshness to the music. Sometimes one succeeds by repeating an older
but very tasteful improvisation and sometimes one fails by trying a new
one on the spot. So you have no argument from me on that one.

We also agree that improvisation without considerable knowledge of what
you are doing (particularly with respect to what was being done in that
period) can lead to disaster. I once played K. 361 in Washington (and
on clarinet, no less, which was rare for me), and the first basset
hornist was of the opinion that the quality of an improvisation was a
function of the density of the notes in the improvisation. Bad mistake,
and the performance did not go well because of it.

Further, it is inappropriate to be the only one doing improvisations.
In 361 again, if the first oboe, and first clarinet chose not to do it,
then the first basset horn should not either. The objective is not to
draw attention to oneself but to the music.

Both of us have had excellent training by doing performances with Bob
Levin. Now that is a guy who knows how to do it, when to do it, and
where to do it. He also is well-informed about when and where NOT to do
it.

Dan
Tony Pay wrote:
>
> On Thu, 06 Dec 2001 09:55:25 -0800, leeson0@-----.net said:
>
> > If, as David wrote, the material presented was designed by Zinman, that
> > is indeed unfortunate. The entire purpose underlying improvisation is
> > defeated if it is (1) not impetuous, (2) not instantaneously created,
> > and (3) not different from performance to performance.
>
> I think you should scrub (3). It's not demanded by (1) and (2); indeed
> what you do this performance *might* be the same as what you did the
> last one.
>
> Because, if not, you're constrained.
>
> Compare throwing dice twice independently. You might get the same
> result.
>
> For me, the important part of improvisation is that if you're both
>
> (A) willing to do it, under (1) and (2), *and*,
>
> (B) have an understanding of the style, and what's appropriate to
> what's going on at the time...
>
> ...then you have a good attitude to the music.
>
> But, I think that it is perfectly possible to play this music with life,
> but without much improvisation in the sense of adding notes -- in other
> words, following (B), you find that your willingness doesn't translate
> into action, necessarily.
>
> So, you can have a good attitude to the music, but choose to stick
> pretty close to what's written.
>
> And the opposite is the case; though Patti Smith wrote:
>
> > So much of our music from this period is played without life because,
> > IMO, people do not imbue it with life. Part of that life, IMHO, is
> > improvisation.
>
> ...it's pretty clear that you can spoil when you improvise, in any
> music.
>
> The jazzer who's out of his/her depth, and whose improvisations don't
> cut it in a particular group, mirrors the classical performer whose
> efforts demean what (s)he's changing.
>
> In other words, improvisation per se is no guarantee of excellence.
>
> (But I suppose that's not surprising, because *nothing* is a guarantee
> of excellence:-)
>
> Anyhow, we know that Mozart winced at some players, and celebrated
> others; by his descriptions, it seems to me that this distinction cut
> across whether or not they improvised. If they were good at
> improvising, it counted for them; if they weren't, he might well have
> wished that they didn't do it.
>
> Evidence?
>
> Just common sense.
>
> Tony
> --
> _________ Tony Pay
> |ony:-) 79 Southmoor Rd Tony@-----.uk
> | |ay Oxford OX2 6RE GMN artist: http://www.gmn.com
> tel/fax 01865 553339
>
> ... And your crybaby whiny-assed opinion would be...?
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------

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** Dan Leeson **
** leeson0@-----.net **
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