Klarinet Archive - Posting 000325.txt from 2001/11

From: Stan Geidel <sgeidel@-----.net>
Subj: Re: [kl] RE: "Yes We Have No Bananas," Beethoven, etc.
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 09:21:25 -0500

Just a general comment on the "Yes We Have No Bananas vs Beethoven"
debate...

I like Beethoven's music better than "Yes We Have No Bananas." Is this
merely a preference, or is Beethoven's work "better art?" Which is it?

Is Beethoven a better composer than me? Heavens, yes. I could jot down a
few questionable melodies and attempt to create some kind of musical setting
for them. But I am absolutely certain Beethoven is a far, far, better
composer than I am. And, I bet you all would agree: Beethoven is a better
composer than Stan Geidel. So, if you all agree, I think we safely can say
that it is true: Beethoven *is* a better composer than Stan Geidel.

Was Beethoven a better composer than Danzi? History seems to say yes. And
what determines history but the opinions of both learned and lay listeners.
So, one composer's art is thought of as "preferred" over another's.
Therefore we say it is better. If we say it is better, well, is it better?
A general consensus may not guarantee truth in the scientific community, but
it just may do so in the arts. What other measure do we have? Simply, have
consensus evaluation of technique, expression, and style. If it looks like
a duck, and walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, you know, in this
case, it may well be a duck. Beethoven may well be a better composer,
technically and artistically, than Danzi.

It seems inescapable that part of art is judgment. If in the judgment of
the community of listeners, Beethoven is deemed to be a better composer than
Danzi, well, I think it can be said to be true (in the context of art) than
Beethoven *is* a better composer than Danzi. Furthermore, this judgment has
stood the test of time. Generation after generation, across the entire
geographical landscape, comes up with the same judgment: Beethoven
continues to be more highly regarded than Danzi. He is, in a word, "better"
at what he did. We are saying that it is so, and in art, for "better" or
worse, that is the final arbiter.

If Beethoven is, within the confines of art (not science), a better composer
than Danzi, he may well be a better composer than the creators of "Yes We
Have No Bananas." If Beethoven *is* a better composer than those gentlemen,
than it seems plausible than he may have created better works than those
gentlemen. One of those works may well have been the Ninth Symphony. So,
yes: Beethoven's Ninth could be a better work, artistically speaking, than
"Yes, We Have No Bananas." In fact, I believe that to be so. If, in the
judgment of history, learned and lay listeners agree with my position, then
that is our measure, and we can actually say it: Beethoven's Ninth is a
better work than Yes We Have No Bananas. Why? Because we say so. This is
art, not science, and unlike science, preferences count. Judgments count.
That's what we do with art; we determine our preferences. History records
them, and those people and their works that are judged to be "great" and are
rewarded with the determination that they and their works are better than
the others.

Stan Geidel
___________________
Stanley Geidel
Editor and Publisher
THE ONLINE CLARINET RESOURCE
www.ocr.sneezy.org

----- Original Message -----
From: "Lacy, Edwin" <el2@-----.edu>
Subject: [kl] RE: "Yes We Have No Bananas," Beethoven, etc.

> Even though I had a hard time getting anyone to agree that the Choral
> Symphony is a "better" work than Wellington's Victory, I'm going to go
ahead
> and try to advance the conversation. I'd like to hear comments about the
> relative merits or the Choral Symphony and the "Choral Fantasia," another
of
> Beethoven's less played works.
>
> Both require similar forces: symphony orchestra, chorus and soloists. In
> addition, the Choral Fantasia has a prominent solo part for piano. Both
are
> in D Major. (I know the 9th Symphony is in D Minor, but the finale is in
> major.) Both are in duple meter. Even the principal melodies have a
great
> deal in common.
>
> I hope some list members who know both works will comment on any
comparisons
> they may have regarding these two works.
>
> Ed Lacy
> EL2@-----.edu
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>

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