Klarinet Archive - Posting 000838.txt from 2001/10

From: "Robert Moody" <LetsReason@-----.com>
Subj: Re: [kl] Teaching Overblown Harmonics Isn't New
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 04:37:01 -0400

<<...teaching the overblown G and the other fundamental pitches -
along with the next overblown overtone (a 6th above the 12th) and the next
overtone (a 4th above the 6th) - as a means to understand aspects of
playing the clarinet in all registers without undue stress to the
embouchure. This was utilized with a fairly aggressive approach to
teaching students at the 7th grade level. Our students began in 6th
grade.>>

I think it is a wonderful approach but that it would better benefit the
child before this point. I believe the child benefits more from learning to
indentify the effects of voicing in making the clarinet speak *before* a
rigid understanding and idea of how the embouchure show feel, look and act.
After a full year of clarinet, these habits have already begun to take hold
on the concept of "embouchure" in the childs mind. In any case, I do
believe that what Roger is speaking of here is better than waiting until
they are in their third or later years to learn how to play in the
altissimo.

Please keep in mind, I am not speaking of teaching the kids to read
altissimo music, I am talking about exercises and games by rote and
experimentation. The students are given these exercises to develop an
*awareness* of voicing to play in the various ranges of the instrument. By
the end of the first year, most of my students could play the chromatic from
e to g''' without issues of making notes speak. Much more common in my
experience is to find highschool students who could NOT squeak a g' to d'''!
At least not initially. It usually takes them 1 to 5 minutes (the ones that
have difficulty) fiddling around with their *embouchure*(!) before realizing
a squeak on their instrument.

<<These were not new concepts in the '70s and '80s ...>> [teaching
overblowing to reach the altissimo]

Gee...I don't remember anyone suggesting that they were.

<<The issue I have seen discussed the past several days does not represent
a "new" approach.>>

Interesting. Seems new to me considering the feedback I'm getting from this
List. But I understand that Roger is merely trying to remove ANY kind of
credit towards my "approach". Despite Roger's announcement, my "approach"
is not common or usual to say the least. His next argument is moot.

<<Rather, it appears to be about the timetable involved with standard
teaching tools that have been considered standard for nearly a half a
century (or longer).>>

Damn. What WAS it that Artusi said of Monteverdi? Anyone remember? In any
case, Roger's argument is moot. The timetable is a definite ingredient to
the "approach" someone uses. And guess what? It is okay if you disagree
with historical practice. Just because a lot of people do
something...doesn't make it automatically the best way.

<<The limited attempt at defining a "traditional teacher" I have seen has
not really done a very good job of explaining what a "traditional" teacher
is.>>

The problem Roger has here is that I do not care about his "definitions" of
what things are. I am a simple person and get results simply. Ya tell a
kid to squeak a g. Ya make'em hold it out and regain the correct embouchure
and air control. You show'em the fingers for the d''' and make'em "squeak a
g" and add the fingers. Eventually they squeak a g while already holding
the fingers for the d'''. Ya give'em games and ideas to try and ya send'em
home. It sinks in. It helps them later.

Simple. Roger can define all he wants.

<<Teachers make use of standard teaching tools in many different timetables,
but such schedules are really only a variation of teaching agendas that have
been around for a long, long time.>>

I wonder if Roger would think I'm just a traditional teacher then. I don't
get the traditional results concerning kids having issues with sub-tones in
clarion and altissimo and the tendency to bite to achieve the notes. At
least, nothing that can't be solved in 1-day of rehashing old exercises.

<<There is no perfect timetable that works for every student, and there is
no guarantee what a class of students in a beginning band will or will not
do.>>

Wonderful wisdom. I wonder why Roger is proclaiming this wisdom?! This is,
rather, common sense for the grounded teacher. Nevertheless, this is merely
Roger insinuating, yet again, that I'm clueless.

<<What we do know is that there is much greater proof and hundreds
(thousands?) of living examples existing as I write this that it is less
helpful to the student's development if the student is moved away from the
Clarion too soon.>>

Ah... logical fallacy. Clearly Roger is speaking of my approach in this
post. I did not speak of taking students "away from the Clarion" at all.
The clarion is the THIRD pitch range the kids should approach. In my
opinion, of course. ;-) This is called a straw man fallacy Roger is
submitting.

<<This is why so many teachers react negatively to the idea of moving
students to the altissimo in such a serious way as to learn and memorize
fingerings up there within
the first three months of playing.>>

Ahh, evidence that Roger was speaking directly to my approach. And besides,
rarely do I wait as long as three months. Usually 3 to 5 weeks, depending
on how fast the kids progress with the chalumeau exercises I give them-again
by rote.

<<I haven't ever seen a case personally or heard from a colleague about a
case in which students suffered from not being moved up soon enough.>>

The problem here is that Roger is not acknowledging that the problem I
suggest exists is COMMON and therefore just accepted as normal. When I came
across this approach...oh sorry...this timetable(?), I was delighted to find
that my kids did NOT develop tendencies in embouchure and mouth development
that would make playing the clarion and altissimo difficult IN THE LEAST!
Please keep in mind, dear readers, that it is not like I was an incompetent
clarinetist when I started teaching this. I had already soloed with bands
and orchestras and played literature successfully such as the Fantasia on
Rigoletto. No, Rigoletto is not the most demanding piece, but it is an
excellent example of the difficulties in playing across multiple registers
fluidly and with consistency of sound. Roger just cannot seem to accept
that I am basing my approach on real life experiences from my own
experiences and students that I have successfully taught BOTH ways.

<<...the idea of moving students to the altissimo in such a serious way as
to learn and memorize fingerings up there within the first three months of
playing.>>

LOL...the fingers generally are not an issue at all. The flutes have to
learn what we would call odd fingers right from the beginning. The kids,
once again, do not have patterns of "the way it supposed to be" yet stuck in
their heads or fingers. Roger is striking out again. Gee...I hadn't
thought of it, but maybe that is why the chromatic scale does not seem so
formidable to them. I'll have to contemplate that. Maybe it's not related,
but I guess I should thank Roger for pointing me to it. :-)

<<I suppose the reason I am writing this is to dispel the notion that there
are no teachers out there or on this list using concepts associated with
learning the altissimo, and that we are, somehow, unsuccessful teaching
voicing by delaying a move to the altissimo.>>

Another logical fallacy. Since I don't think Roger to be ignorant, I should
call this what it is-but I will restrain myself. I never suggested that
current practice is not successful in prodcuing wonderful players...it most
assuredly does. Well crap, I think I'm a pretty decent player and it
produced me. But just think, what if there WAS a way to improve the general
approach? Oh I see...if it's not broke, don't fix it. LOL You know, with
that frame of mind...we'd still be driving Model Ts. :-)

I say...if it works and it helps the students, do it. I can tell you from
experience...this works and it helps the students. I, and many others I
knew, have spent many a practice session rubbing my tongue along the
backside of my lower lip. Oh, I'm sorry...no-one elses's students ever did
that. My bad! It must just be those ignorant teachers in Virginia Beach,
Virginia, that teach those poor habits. I mean, Eddie Knackal just got
lucky with multiple 1st chair All-State students that went on to seats in
the Boston Symphony and D.C Bands. Just lucky. That Al Ascercion and his
danged double-lip, circular breathing and double/triple tounging garbage.
And oh my...that Dennis Zeisler sure had no idea what he was doing. ;-)

[Just because I KNOW someone will misunderstand this. I sat in school,
regional and state bands with students from all of the teachers. We ALL(!)
dealt with the issues of learning to play in the clarion and altissimo and
how to restrain from the natural tendency to bite to achieve the notes. My
approa...ugh...my timetable alleviates that tendency for the most part.]

<<For me, I see no advantage to playing an altissimo G when they can learn
more important skills that will help them develop quickly - including, but
not limited to good articulation skills and good reading skills.>>

Interesting. I had no problems with my kids getting behind in any area of
playing. Quite the opposite. The kids tended to react more knowledgeably
and naturally to descriptions of articulation and airflow. They seemed to
be more in tune with controlling the elements involved with successful
articulation. And GASP!...imagine this concept...not being bogged down with
technical issues of HOW TO do something on their instrument, they were
unfettered mentally to approach reading music.

<<The only students I have ever observed who suffer with remedial problems
in sound production, sub-tones in the clarion, and biting and squeezing
problems are those who didn't receive steady, good teaching and, perhaps
most importantly, consistent reinforcement of that teaching during the first
two years. Either they didn't get the instruction to begin with, or the
teacher didn't stick with it and nurture good habits.>>

Damn! I'd better call those guys in Virginia Beach quick, before they
produce anymore professional symphony players!!! I'd better write to the
editors of those danged books like "Clarinet" by Jack Brymer (Lord knows HE
doesn't know what he's talking about!) that mentions on page 184 and 185 of
the lip fatigue that will probably occur with learning the altissimo. Let
me quote, if I may...

"The altissimo register. Caution is essential in making this extension.
[Which comes AFTER the two lower registers, in his book.] It should be made
only one note at a time, and a feeling of control achieved for each note
before moving on to the next note. Not only that, but an acceptable sound
must be achieved for each note as the student ascends, and without *undue
lip-fatigue*. To this end fingerings in this register which produce sharper
sounds are preferable to those producing a flatter-pitched note, because
*these require less marked embouchure pressure and are less tiring.*"
Emphasis mine.

Sounds like Mr. Brymer is trying to "caution" you to the "lip-fatigue" that
is likely to happen. Of course, he says this after giving you the proper
way to bring the student up to these notes. BUZZER!

Sorry...I think Mr. Brymer was a wonderful clarinetist and teacher,
but...no. This is a backwards approach if your concern is ease of learning
and control in the altissimo. The kids do NOT have to overcome the tendency
to bite to reach these notes. With the proper reed, I have more issues
playing staccato pianissimo notes on a b' than I do c''''. Case in hand,
the third movement of the Piston Trio for Fl, Cl and Bsn has the clarinet
coming in lightly on staccato b'. Tis not easy to match that style to the
later staccato in the throat tones. It would be easier to match a staccato
c'''' and the g' than the b' and the g'.

<<The Suzuki Method was not originally designed for students above the age
of 10. [....]>>

Neither was Kellogs Frosted Flakes...but there are apparently alot of adults
that think They'rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrre GREAT! The point is, it does not matter
what he intended when he created his method of teaching. If something good
came out of it that others can use to effectively teach their subject, then
damn it, let them do it. Don't sit there and try to denounce the
acknowledging of the influence of Suzuki on an approach because HE did not
intend it for 11 year olds in a bandroom setting. The argument is moot
because the approach influenced by Suzuki is successful.

<<New concepts taught by wrote are important. It is just as important to
reinforce those new concepts with written notations and rhythms, and I would
hope that any approach to teaching beginning band would keep all students,
clarinetists or otherwise,
actively involved to that end.>>

Again, another erroneous assumption. My kids were involved and my
clarinetists did learn to read just as well as the other kids. They never
got behind. Roger has no clue as to what actually went on in my bandroom
and the success I had with my students to make these insinuations. [My final
concert had my band (7th and 8th graders) playing grade level three (of six)
music very successfully (to standing ovations from faculty, students and
parents). I was only there four years and this was a program where the
highschool on the same property whose seniors were playing grade 4 level
music. I did the best with the situation I had.]

If your particular situation, or even if it's just your teaching style, does
not permit you to incorporate this approach, then you might attempt another
time outside the school day to meet with your clarinet players and teach
them these exercises. I firmly believe, as if you couldn't tell, that these
exercises at this time are very beneficial to the students' overall ease of
progress and growth as clarinettists and well worth your time to not only
investigate, but to find a way to incorporate into your lessons.

Please do not let Roger's diatribe dissuade you from exploring this approach
for yourself. I am finding that Annie is probably most correct in that this
is most likely something that needs to be demonstrated before teachers can
understand how to deliver it effectively. I am also finding the many
successful players are not even truly aware of what if happening with the
"voicing" to allow them to play the altissimo so effectively and
effortlessly. Maybe I will find the time to produce the videos I offered.

Robert

---------------------------------------------------------------------