Klarinet Archive - Posting 000117.txt from 2001/10

From: Tony@-----.uk (Tony Pay)
Subj: Re: [kl] Re:quotes and other stuff......
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 04:20:15 -0400

On Fri, 5 Oct 2001 15:00:05 -0400, webler1@-----.com said:

> First, Roger I want to offer my heart felt sympathy for your fathers
> diagnoses. I lost both my parents over 20 years and know what it is
> like to watch them deteriorate before your eyes.

Yes, and I concur. My story about my mum is similar.

Many (all?) of us have such stories. It's a part of being human. But
these stories have no relevance to the discussion.

If I were to be cynical about politics, I would say that the fact that,
for example, Tony Blair recently had a child, and that was made helpful
to him politically, constitutes an exploitation of our sensibilities.

Such things should not be exploited.

After all, if I had told the story about my mum before Roger told his
story about his father, my ovn case might have benefited.

> Secondly, Tony, what ever Rogers motives are for sending this email is
> frankly irrelevant because he is, in fact, pointing out serious
> problems with email lists.

I would rather say that he *creates* these problems with email lists.
He writes tendentiously, obscurely, and manipulates the facts. When
challenged on a point, he obfuscates.

> Keep in mind, I am not accusing you of this because I have recently
> lost my ability to read minds; but the fact is there are people on
> these lists that seem to want to use them just to stir trouble and
> talk down to people.

Yes. Like him.

I was recently asked why I posted to this list. I answered that I am
committed -- have always been committed in my musical life -- to
representing a particular point of view. This point of view is often at
odds with the opinions of people here, so it may look as though I am
attacking them.

The point of view is, roughly, that 'playing' is about *making the
music be 'alive'*, and all that entails. It doesn't mean that
you have to play to big audiences, or indeed to any audiences, so it
includes all the amateurs here.

But it does distance the matter from viewpoints that are
'clarinet-centered'. It's not that all the stuff about clarinets isn't
interesting -- it's that all that stuff defers, when necessary, to the
idea of making music.

I make no apology for that. In my view, it's what's needed in the world
at the moment -- and, dare I say it, particularly in the world
of American playing.

> They are often people who look for the bad in everything and can see
> nothing good in anything. Many a time I send posts thinking one
> thing, only to find that someone twists and turns something that I
> have said, into something that never even entered my mind. If we (as
> humans) have a problem with civility, then that problem should be
> addressed, even if we are reminded of it by a raving lunitic. Truth
> is Truth no matter who the messanger is. I. E. do what they say and
> not what they do.

Civility is the least of our problems, I submit.

Quite honestly, I find that I don't like Roger, and I don't trust him.

He does sometimes say useful technical things, about which he's quite
knowledgeable. I regard that as an important contribution here.

But apart from that, here he's a pernicious influence. He exacerbates
dispute. He's irrational, and doesn't read what people have written.
He has quoted, in aggressive emails to me, none of which I have
responded to, similarly aggressive messages purporting to come from his
students. I suspect that he similarly goes behind the scenes to
influence people that might be useful to him. I don't really know what
his motives are, but they're certainly not mine. And though he accuses
me of wanting to be 'someone important', I think that exactly that is
true of him.

He did once write a superficially conciliatory email to me,
immediately reporting on that to the list. However, it was
indeed superficial, and I never replied to that one either.

It's about time that we took him on.

Tony
--
_________ Tony Pay
|ony:-) 79 Southmoor Rd Tony@-----.uk
| |ay Oxford OX2 6RE GMN artist: http://www.gmn.com
tel/fax 01865 553339

... If work is so terrific, how come they have to pay you to do it?

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