Klarinet Archive - Posting 000035.txt from 2001/06

From: vasiliu ciprian <ciprianvasiliu@-----.com>
Subj: Re: [kl] The guru and the internet
Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 00:30:41 -0400

Dear Tony
I do not believe in controlling other people by the
power of youe mind.And anyway now I am really nervous
about a lpot of that happens in my life,
Talk to you
Ciprian
--- Tony Pay <Tony@-----.uk> wrote:
> There is a traditional model of how a student learns
> an art or a craft.
> What they do is to go to a teacher of that art or
> craft, and work with
> them. The teacher may have very clear ideas of how
> they themselves
> perform, or at least how the student may develop,
> and may require the
> student to follow very closely a particular path
> toward the mastery that
> the teacher has.
>
> Students typically choose a teacher whose mastery
> they themselves
> admire, and the path involves close contact between
> the 'guru' and the
> student.
>
> On the other hand, the internet makes available
> quite another model.
> It may never replace the intimate relationship
> between the teacher and
> the student. But what it does offer is the
> possibility of a sideways
> look at what is the 'straight ahead' model that the
> teacher gives to the
> student.
>
> Of course, the 'straight ahead' quality is an
> illusion. A great teacher
> modifies the path of each individual student
> according to their needs.
> So what *seems* 'straight ahead' to the student may
> in actual fact be
> more complex.
>
> Some might argue that the 'sideways' model is best
> avoided. Perhaps
> we're always best off with a teacher. But, with
> which teacher? Here
> the internet, and this group, may help.
>
> But it cannot help if the 'guru' model is adopted.
> Dogmatic statements
> about what 'must' be followed, while appropriate to
> a close
> teacher/student relationship, cannot translate to a
> helpful interaction
> here except by chance.
>
> For example, if you, a clarinet player, come to
> study with me, then I
> may well tell you to do certain things; even
> *demand* that you do
> certain things, contrary to what you want. But the
> point is that I take
> responsibility for the effects of those
> instructions, and if they turn
> out to be counterproductive, I will change them.
>
> I *HATE* the presence of false gurus on this list.
> What those 'gurus'
> demonstrate is that they have no experience of how
> their instructions
> may be the wrong ones to give in certain
> circumstances. On the other
> hand, if I can 'be a guru' about something that is
> *always* true -- say,
> about the necessity of understanding the context in
> which we play --
> then I take the opportunity of doing so.
>
> Apart from that, what can we do?
>
> I suggest that we can 'take apart' the constructs
> that master teachers
> provide, whilst understanding how they may be useful
> playing metaphors.
>
> The notion of 'not biting', for example, needs
> careful scientific
> discussion before it becomes rationally
> understandable. Unfortunately
> in this particular case, elementary scientific
> understanding is
> required. Such understanding is 'school-level'
> applied mathematics --
> but that isn't available to everyone.
>
> Of course, it could be, if we want. We could
> explain the concepts, and
> invoke the abilities of the scientifically
> knowledgeable here. This
> list can be a great resource.
>
> But it can't be if we don't want, as some of the
> resistance to the
> discussion about 'difference tones' showed.
>
> Tony
> --
> _________ Tony Pay
> |ony:-) 79 Southmoor Rd
> Tony@-----.uk
> | |ay Oxford OX2 6RE GMN artist:
> http://www.gmn.com
> tel/fax 01865 553339
>
> ... To be intoxicated is to feel sophisticated, but
> not be able to say it.
>
>
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