Klarinet Archive - Posting 000224.txt from 2001/04

From: eric james <eric_d_james@-----.net>
Subj: [kl] Re: [Re: [kl] Re: [Re: [kl] C clarinet]]
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 16:46:01 -0400

Dan,

I would like to keep everything as written, simply because to do it any o=
ther
way gives a distorted view of things. As far as horn players go, every o=
ne
I've talked to, save for the most inexperienced, prefers the original key=
s. I
feel I can safely argue that point. But I'm not a clarinettist and I was=

trying to get a consensus as to what players prefer nowadays. I'd like t=
o be
able to tell the publisher they are wrong in thinking they're making thin=
gs
more attractive to either horns or clarinets. I'm new at the publishing =
game.
I've many more pieces of this kind which I would like to bring forth and=
am
not sure whether or not to compromise on a point like this. Your input h=
as
been has been most valuable and welcome.

Regards.

Eric James =

Daniel Leeson <leeson0@-----.net> wrote:
> Eric, your assumption about what players of Mozart's time would have
> done is 180 degrees out of phase with what they did. EVERYBODY had
> three clarinets and they always played C clarinet parts on a C. In
> fact, there is hard evidence that Stadler had three basset clarinets,
> one in C, one in B-flat, and one in A.
> =

> Make no mistake about the matter. Playing a C clarinet part on anythin=
g
> other than a C clarinet was then (and in my opinion is now) a serious
> historical error at best and a serious musical error at worst. I
> recognize that many players don't have them today, but that is neither
> here nor there in terms of what was done then or what is the right thin=
g
> to do. Use of a B-flat (or an A) in place of a C and transposing, is a=

> financial issue; i.e., you don't have to buy and maintain another
> clarinet. There is no other reason for doing it. And the same thing
> occurs in small Italian villages where youngsters play everything on on=
e
> clarinet because of cost.
> =

> I understand why you are doing what you are doing and said in my earlie=
r
> note that both you and the publishers were correct, though for differen=
t
> reasons. But you should not interpret my understanding with
> concurrence.
> =

> Dan
> =

> eric james wrote:
> > =

> > Many thanks to all for thoughtful and quick reponses to my quandary. =
I
doubt
> > that the publisher will go for extra transposed parts, plus the
originals.
> > The work in question is already quite long, 15 movements divided into=
two
> > volumes. From the responses it appears that, although I would prefer=
to
keep
> > everything as written, the clarinets should appear completely in Bb. =
Dan
> > Leeson is, of course, right in guessing that the parts, because of th=
eir
> > transpositions, have no more than one flat or sharp in the key signat=
ures.
So
> > now, players will see a lot of D major in their parts. Dan, do I gat=
her
from
> > your note that since tonal quality wasn't an issue, clarinet players =
from
> > Mozart's time would have done the same as today, i.e, played the part=
s on
> > whatever instrument was most comfortable for them?
> > =

> > Alright, I dig in my heels about the horn parts--they remain as writt=
en,
keep
> > both instruments in their original keys in the score, and put the
individual
> > clarinet parts totally in Bb.
> > =

> > Again, many thanks to all. I'm off to find bassoon players to talk a=
bout
the
> > contrabassoon.
> > =

> > Eric James
> > =

> > Daniel Leeson <leeson0@-----.net> wrote:
> > > Eric, you have a complex problem on your hands in which both sides =
are
> > > right.
> > >
> > > From the publisher's point of view, they will lose sales if the par=
ts
> > > are not printed for clarinet types in general use. Horn players ar=
e
> > > expected to be able to transpose anything, but not clarinetists. S=
o
the
> > > publisher's point of view is strictly economic, not historical.
> > > Besides, despite advances over the years, most clarinet players do =
not
> > > have C clarinets in any case.
> > >
> > > On the other hand, you are absolutely correct in suggesting that th=
e
> > > parts be printed as they were written, and it is not a trivial poin=
t.
> > > First, I will bet you $10 sight unseen, that, when using the clarin=
ets
> > > specified in the original, no clarinet will be required to play in =
any
> > > key signature of more than 1 sharp or more than 1 flat. And that i=
s
the
> > > main technical and historical reason why C and B-flat and A clarine=
ts
> > > were used at that time, not for tonal characteristic, but to assure=

that
> > > no clarinet played outside of the range of proscribed key signature=
s.
> > > (By the way, I sense in your note the assumption that when a clarin=
et
> > > player sees "Clarinet in C" his/her business is to transpose the pa=
rt.
> > > Nonsense!!! It is his/her business to execute the part on a clarin=
et
in
> > > C.)
> > >
> > > Even though the decision of which clarinet to use was not made on t=
he
> > > basis of sound character, selecting a clarinet different than that
> > > specified will produce a sound character different than that for wh=
ich
> > > the arrangement was made. That may not be a big thing to you (and =
it
> > > certainly is of no import whatsoever to the publisher), but it is a=

fact
> > > that cannot be challenged. The best one can say is that it's true =
but
> > > unimportant. I happen not to agree with that, but so what?
> > >
> > > You have only one option: provide the clarinet parts in both the
> > > original and (where necessary) the transposed version. This satisf=
ies
> > > your historical accuracy as well as keeping the publisher happy. T=
rue,
> > > the parts will be thicker and thus the printing costs higher, but
charge
> > > another $5 per set and that will cover that.
> > >
> > > eric james wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi to all clarinettists:
> > > >
> > > > I wonder if any of you can help me with a C clarinet problem I ha=
ve. =

I am
> > in
> > > > the process of getting a work published. It is Harmoniemusik fro=
m
the
> > time of
> > > > Mozart and deals with both horns and clarinets in various keys. =
The
> > clarinets
> > > > alternate between Bb and C instruments. The publisher wants all =
the
parts
> > to
> > > > be printed for Bb clarinet and F horn. As a horn player, I know =
that
it
> > is
> > > > actually more confusing to play music of this sort that has been
> > transposed.
> > > > The notes just don't look right. But I wonder how clarinettists =
see
> > things.
> > > > They have much more complex parts than horns. Is preferable to h=
ave
C
> > > > clarinet parts transposed to Bb or to play from the original C pa=
rts?
> > > >
> > > > My own preference is to publish the parts in their original keys =
and
let
> > > > performers make of them what they will. This would also address =
the
> > > > proliferation of "authentic" performance groups. I've no idea wh=
at a
> > > > classical C clarinettist would make of a Bb part. Any thoughts o=
n
the
> > matter
> > > > would be greatly appreciated.
> > > >
> > > > Eric James
> > > >
___
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> > > >
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> > > --
> > > ***************************
> > > ** Dan Leeson **
> > > ** leeson0@-----.net **
> > > ***************************
> > >
> > > -------------------------------------------------------------------=
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> -- =

> ***************************
> ** Dan Leeson ** =

> ** leeson0@-----.net **
> ***************************
> =

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