Klarinet Archive - Posting 000222.txt from 2001/04

From: Daniel Leeson <leeson0@-----.net>
Subj: Re: [kl] Re: [Re: [kl] C clarinet]
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 15:24:14 -0400

Eric, your assumption about what players of Mozart's time would have
done is 180 degrees out of phase with what they did. EVERYBODY had
three clarinets and they always played C clarinet parts on a C. In
fact, there is hard evidence that Stadler had three basset clarinets,
one in C, one in B-flat, and one in A.

Make no mistake about the matter. Playing a C clarinet part on anything
other than a C clarinet was then (and in my opinion is now) a serious
historical error at best and a serious musical error at worst. I
recognize that many players don't have them today, but that is neither
here nor there in terms of what was done then or what is the right thing
to do. Use of a B-flat (or an A) in place of a C and transposing, is a
financial issue; i.e., you don't have to buy and maintain another
clarinet. There is no other reason for doing it. And the same thing
occurs in small Italian villages where youngsters play everything on one
clarinet because of cost.

I understand why you are doing what you are doing and said in my earlier
note that both you and the publishers were correct, though for different
reasons. But you should not interpret my understanding with
concurrence.

Dan

eric james wrote:
>
> Many thanks to all for thoughtful and quick reponses to my quandary. I doubt
> that the publisher will go for extra transposed parts, plus the originals.
> The work in question is already quite long, 15 movements divided into two
> volumes. From the responses it appears that, although I would prefer to keep
> everything as written, the clarinets should appear completely in Bb. Dan
> Leeson is, of course, right in guessing that the parts, because of their
> transpositions, have no more than one flat or sharp in the key signatures. So
> now, players will see a lot of D major in their parts. Dan, do I gather from
> your note that since tonal quality wasn't an issue, clarinet players from
> Mozart's time would have done the same as today, i.e, played the parts on
> whatever instrument was most comfortable for them?
>
> Alright, I dig in my heels about the horn parts--they remain as written, keep
> both instruments in their original keys in the score, and put the individual
> clarinet parts totally in Bb.
>
> Again, many thanks to all. I'm off to find bassoon players to talk about the
> contrabassoon.
>
> Eric James
>
> Daniel Leeson <leeson0@-----.net> wrote:
> > Eric, you have a complex problem on your hands in which both sides are
> > right.
> >
> > From the publisher's point of view, they will lose sales if the parts
> > are not printed for clarinet types in general use. Horn players are
> > expected to be able to transpose anything, but not clarinetists. So the
> > publisher's point of view is strictly economic, not historical.
> > Besides, despite advances over the years, most clarinet players do not
> > have C clarinets in any case.
> >
> > On the other hand, you are absolutely correct in suggesting that the
> > parts be printed as they were written, and it is not a trivial point.
> > First, I will bet you $10 sight unseen, that, when using the clarinets
> > specified in the original, no clarinet will be required to play in any
> > key signature of more than 1 sharp or more than 1 flat. And that is the
> > main technical and historical reason why C and B-flat and A clarinets
> > were used at that time, not for tonal characteristic, but to assure that
> > no clarinet played outside of the range of proscribed key signatures.
> > (By the way, I sense in your note the assumption that when a clarinet
> > player sees "Clarinet in C" his/her business is to transpose the part.
> > Nonsense!!! It is his/her business to execute the part on a clarinet in
> > C.)
> >
> > Even though the decision of which clarinet to use was not made on the
> > basis of sound character, selecting a clarinet different than that
> > specified will produce a sound character different than that for which
> > the arrangement was made. That may not be a big thing to you (and it
> > certainly is of no import whatsoever to the publisher), but it is a fact
> > that cannot be challenged. The best one can say is that it's true but
> > unimportant. I happen not to agree with that, but so what?
> >
> > You have only one option: provide the clarinet parts in both the
> > original and (where necessary) the transposed version. This satisfies
> > your historical accuracy as well as keeping the publisher happy. True,
> > the parts will be thicker and thus the printing costs higher, but charge
> > another $5 per set and that will cover that.
> >
> > eric james wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi to all clarinettists:
> > >
> > > I wonder if any of you can help me with a C clarinet problem I have. I am
> in
> > > the process of getting a work published. It is Harmoniemusik from the
> time of
> > > Mozart and deals with both horns and clarinets in various keys. The
> clarinets
> > > alternate between Bb and C instruments. The publisher wants all the parts
> to
> > > be printed for Bb clarinet and F horn. As a horn player, I know that it
> is
> > > actually more confusing to play music of this sort that has been
> transposed.
> > > The notes just don't look right. But I wonder how clarinettists see
> things.
> > > They have much more complex parts than horns. Is preferable to have C
> > > clarinet parts transposed to Bb or to play from the original C parts?
> > >
> > > My own preference is to publish the parts in their original keys and let
> > > performers make of them what they will. This would also address the
> > > proliferation of "authentic" performance groups. I've no idea what a
> > > classical C clarinettist would make of a Bb part. Any thoughts on the
> matter
> > > would be greatly appreciated.
> > >
> > > Eric James
> > >
> > > Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1
> > >
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> > --
> > ***************************
> > ** Dan Leeson **
> > ** leeson0@-----.net **
> > ***************************
> >
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--
***************************
** Dan Leeson **
** leeson0@-----.net **
***************************

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