Klarinet Archive - Posting 000095.txt from 2001/04

From: Roger Shilcock <roger.shilcock@-----.uk>
Subj: RE: [kl] Meta-music?
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 05:30:42 -0400

Do we really know that "Stodla" didn't use vibrato? You seem to be
suggesting this.
Roger S.

In message <24972-3ACB55FF-716@-----.org writes:
> <><> David=A0Kumpf wrote:
> I think we're in the realm of musical semantics, rather than syntax.
> [snip] I have a MIDI file of Mozart's clarinet concerto. [snip] It
> has all the notes, rests, etc. My MIDI playback uses sampled
> instruments. So, I should have a reasonably authentic representation of
> K.622. Yet, most would agree that it sounds pretty awful and is only a
> semblance of the Concerto.
>
>
>
> That's a good example. It has clarified my thinking.
>
> The sentence "I didn't say he stole money" can have 6 different
> meanings depending on vocal emphasis:
>
> _I_ didn't say he stole money.
> I _didn't_ say he stole money.
> I didn't _say_ he stole money.
> I didn't say _he_ stole money.
> I didn't say he _stole_ money.
> I didn't say he stole _money_.
>
> Written textual language includes symbols that affect semantics:
> underscore, italics, bold font, punctuation including "!" and "?" and
> ".....", sometimes capitalization (and if you are e.e. cummings, even
> white space). Written musical language includes such symbols also:
> dynamic markings, expressional instructions, and so forth.
>
> Therefore it should be possible to create a paradoxical statement by
> confusing the 'expressional' or 'semantic' features of a language with
> those of the meta-language that describes it --- just as it is possible
> to do this syntactically or grammatically.
>
> Let's talk about K.622 for a moment. The concerto begins with a
> musical 'statement' from the orchestra while the clarinet remains
> silent. Do you agree that this statement is long enough (30 seconds? I
> haven't time it) and assertive enough to define a 'dialect' of musical
> language, such that the dialect is a well-defined language of its own?
> And therefore if the clarinet comes in with a totally different style or
> dynamic or tone, the clarinet conceivably could create a language vs.
> meta-language paradox?
>
> Some people may say, "For crying out loud !!! If the clarinet enters
> K.622 with a jazz tone or klezmer style or too loud or with staccato
> instead of legato, of course it's wrong!! We don't need formal
> linguistics to know this." However the issue of honoring a composer's
> intent comes up often enough that it's worthwhile to discuss what part
> of the composer's 'language' is being violated. Perhaps we can draw
> distinctions between which freedoms are or aren't permissible.
>
> Dan Leeson's post about vibrato is a good example of this question.
> Vibrato is essential in some clarinet playing. Presumably we've all
> listened to Pete Fountain in a jazz context. For him to play jazz
> ballads totally without vibrato is inconceivable. Yet to play K.622
> with vibrato (the Richard Stoltzman recording that I own does _not_
> include vibrato) would certainly be a 'language error', the equivalent
> of illiteracy. Illiteracy sells sometimes, as in Mark Twain's
> characters, but we understand that we are reading a portrayal of
> illiteracy. If we thought that Clemens actually believed that
> Huckleberry Finn was speaking the king's English, we wouldn't value his
> fiction as much.
>
>
>
> Thanks and cheers,
> Bill
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Unsubscribe from Klarinet, e-mail: klarinet-unsubscribe@-----.org
> Subscribe to the Digest: klarinet-digest-subscribe@-----.org
> Additional commands: klarinet-help@-----.org
> Other problems: klarinet-owner@-----.org
>
>

--
............
For there's more enterprise
In walking naked.
-------------- W. B. Yeats ("A coat")

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Unsubscribe from Klarinet, e-mail: klarinet-unsubscribe@-----.org
Subscribe to the Digest: klarinet-digest-subscribe@-----.org
Additional commands: klarinet-help@-----.org
Other problems: klarinet-owner@-----.org