Klarinet Archive - Posting 000044.txt from 2001/04

From: "David C. Kumpf" <dkumpf@-----.com>
Subj: RE: [kl] Meta-music?
Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 15:22:20 -0400

Well, I'm still lost, but you anticipated that. ;-)

In your discussion below, when you refer to the musical equivalent of "This
statement is a lie" or "obeying the rules of music, yet produce a disturbing
result" are you in essence saying that

- the performer has violated the expectations of the audience for what
should happen musically;
- the composer has violated the expectations of the audience for what
should happen musically;
- either;
- both?

Based on this, I think we're in the realm of musical semantics, rather than
syntax. Or at least that's my evaluation, perhaps incorrect.

Let me propose an example; your reaction to it may help clarify. I have a
MIDI file of Mozart's clarinet concerto. (I can't guarantee that it's
authentic to the score, but we're working with a model here...asssume that
it is.) It has all the notes, rests, etc. My MIDI playback uses sampled
instruments. So, I should have a reasonably authentic representation of
K.622. Yet, most would agree that it sounds pretty awful and is only a
semblance of the Concerto. Does that fit your definition, or am I completely
missing the point here?

-----Original Message-----
From: William Wright [mailto:Bilwright@-----.net]
Subject: RE: [kl] Meta-music?

<><> David C. Kumpf wrote:
However, in formal language theory, a meta-language is a language used
to describe other languages [snip] When we say "meta-music," are we
talking about describing music by using music?

Yes, although I fumbled a bit when I began this thread (and perhaps
I am still fumbling?).

The idea that I'm struggling with is that, perhaps, you can appear
to obey the rules of 'valid music' and yet still produce a disturbing
result because (in some way that I haven't been able to define) you have
made a self-modifying musical statement analogous to "This sentence is a
lie." I guess this would be equivalent to writing self-modifying code
in a computer program.

Wouldn't most of us agree that (say) Stravinsky devised new musical
language without being, umm... self-modifying? So what's a musical
example of "This statement is a lie"? I don't have an example myself
--- although for reasons that I don't understand, this concept popped
into my mind when somebody began to talk about Richard Stolzman's
playing (and conducting). I think it's time for me to listen to his
Mozart Concerto recording again.

....oh well, now I'm off to the zoo to see about the lemur
costume....

Cheers,
Bill

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