Klarinet Archive - Posting 000758.txt from 2001/03

From: Audrey Travis <vsofan@-----.com>
Subj: Re: [kl] The good old days?
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 19:59:25 -0500

Larry, your point is well taken. I don't happen to agree that concert notices
should be excluded, because I like being able to see at a glance what's coming
up in our community without going searching for it elsewhere. I admit this is
lazy on my part. I do, however, agree with you - that what I love the most
about klarinet is the interesting discussions we sometimes have about clarinet
and music. Someone a few days ago asked about audition experiences which our
members might share with him, and he/she? also mentioned how bored he/she was
with our mundane topics. I agree, and this slamming of Jonathan is another
aspect of that same deterioration. So, if this is part of your disallusionment
(sp?) with klarinet, I understand. I was simply advocating respect and
tolerance of topics that don't necessarily meet an individual's 'high'
standards. If the message blips by once, where's the harm? I can't agree that
a concert notice or a mention of a newly developed mouthpiece or barrel or book
is spam. I think the definition of spam is related to what is relevant to our
members and the frequency of repetition of the same message. As a budding
clarinetist and a member of this list, I enjoy these notices and don't want to
go searching for them. I want these to be part of our ongoing klarinet
discussion. You and I are in a conversation right now, and if you (or
Jonathan) said to me "BTW, Audrey, I'm playing this neat concert next week - do
you want to come? - it's on such/such a day, and I'm playing....", I'd treat
this as an interesting part of our conversation. I wouldn't feel pressured or
taken advantage of, because it's my decision what to do with that information.
This is a huge part of my perception of klarinet, that we have an ongoing
discussion between (hopefully) friends, and friends don't edit what other
friends say in a conversation.

Very best wishes!

Audrey

Laurence Liberson wrote:

> Audrey Travis <vsofan@-----.com> wrote:
>
> >Next, the list may have been different at one time (as >you state) but that
> doesn't mean it was the 'be-all-and->end-all'. Things change, and sometimes
> for the better. >Also, if your main complaint (or anyone else's) was that
> >this was an advertisement, (and I don't agree BTW), >why not simply and
> politely ask Jonathan to put a k in >front of his message instead of all
> these detailed >criticisms of a simple notice? Because again, below, you
> >apologize and then continue to nitpick - IMHO. My >understanding of list
> members' agreement of using the k >was to advertise actual products like
> mouthpieces, >books, barrels, etc.
>
> IMHO, it was better in the "good old days." While I would rather spend my
> time with the horn in my mouth, I used to enjoy the e-mail messages that
> came from members of this list. The discussions (and let me emphasize the
> word discussions) were often thought provoking, engaging, meaningful and
> sometimes entertaining. I like to think that the few posts I contributed
> were thought of in a similar fashion. And I did learn some things, even at
> my advanced age.
>
> But I have been rather disenchanted with the list and have not posted for a
> very long time (years, in fact). When I occasionally read mesages it is
> usually on the web page. Today happened to be one of those days.
>
> Going back to the roots of this mail list wouldn't be a bad thing. Yes,
> things do change with time--but they are not always for the better. Our
> individual feelings on that matter are subjective, aren't they? For me
> (myself & I), the list has suffered from many things in recent years. It has
> seemed to become quite noisy. In that spirit, may I add to the din?
>
> To refresh our collective (not Borg) memories, the Klarinet FAQ reads
> "Klarinet is an unmoderated discussion group for clarinet players, teachers,
> and enthusiasts. All interested persons are invited to subscribe, and all
> aspects of clarinettistry are discussed. This is an excellent forum to ask
> questions, share information, or just listen."
>
> It would be interesting if the original list owners intended for the sharing
> of information to be more often than not the sharing of commercial
> advertising. Perhaps one or more of them might care to comment on that?
>
> Kevin Fay makes a very good argument for the continued use of Klarinet in
> this fashion. It is, after all, the sharing of information, albeit
> information that can be found elsewhere in Sneezy (as was mentioned by Clare
> Guy) without expending too much effort. Often, these "announcements"
> (commercial or not) interfere with the discussion(s), break the flow of the
> conversation, gum up the works (to chew on a phrase?).
>
> If Jonathan Cohler (or anyone else--I don't mean to make an example of you,
> Jonathan--wants to share information about his or her concerts, there is a
> section in Sneezy called Announcements (where, ironically, sits a nice
> notice of this very same concert!). The suggestion to refer to another page
> for further details is not altogether a bad idea.
>
> If he (or Anthony Pay or Roger Garrett or even me) has a recording to
> "share," wouldn't the same suffice? Merely point those who would like to
> know more to another site. If Walter Grabner, whom I remember well from Ann
> Arbor many, many years ago (sorry, Walt) has a new mouthpiece on the market,
> wouldn't a simple statement to that effect with a link for further
> information be more appropriate than interrupting the discussion at length?
>
> Respect for the list users goes both ways. Those who really want or need to
> know all this stuff can readily learn more, yet the rest need not be
> unfairly burdened. This kind of commercial information can easily be
> construed by some as nothing more than spam.
>
> Mark Charette has continued to graciously and generously provide us with
> this resource. I suggest that any commercial notice (and I suspect that we
> all can distinguish what one of those is) be treated as such: as
> advertisements that should be purchased here, as they are in the "real
> world" (whatever that is!). While Sneezy has paying sponsors, does it also
> mean that the Klarinet list must be held hostage to the same?
>
> As this is, as Audrey said, a community, let's consider returning to the
> spirit of what the best of this list was and can be and respect all members
> of this community.
>
> Let's talk about music, let's discuss the clarinet, let's argue history.
>
> And let's sell ourselves and our wares elsewhere.
>
> Larry Liberson
> Detroit Symphony Orchestra
> hardreed@-----.com
>
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