Klarinet Archive - Posting 000076.txt from 2001/02

From: "Alf Hörberg" <alf.horberg@-----.se>
Subj: SV: SV: [kl] A TV show about K. 621b
Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 18:39:34 -0500

Dan,

I think the key point here is that we have the music, the Wintertuur
manuscript and the Notturno K.437 "Mi langerò tacendo", from the six
notturni, written for a BH in G. Both these pieces ask for a low C#/Db. But,
there are, as far as we know, no surviving BHs in G, or, any BH with a low
C#/Db key from this time. That's the mystery. Both these pieces are dated to
1787 so Stadler must have had an instrument like that in his possession
already, or, had this construction made at this time. Standard BHs at this
time only had keys for D and C. Not even for Eb. So, these notes on a BH is
a much later invention. Probably with the exception of Lutz/Stadlers. The
obvious questions are of cause; what did it look like? what did it sound
like? why did he have it made in G? (Because Mozart first wanted to write
the concerto in G major? (My own simple theory)), just like the mysteries
around the K.622 basset-clarinet.
Of cause, this is all linked to the whole pattern of mysteries surrounding
Stadler and K.622 and what happened to his bag in Germany and all that, so
soberly spoken, this is a little bit like splitting hairs. But for people
like us it becomes dead serious.

Alf

----- Original Message -----
From: Daniel Leeson <leeson0@-----.net>
Subject: Re: SV: [kl] A TV show about K. 621b

> That is really a very good posting, Alf. I was wondering what the
> central issue was all about and you have clarified it nicely.
>
> What I don't understand is why the man interested in the problem was
> surprised by finding a note present on one manufacturer's basset horn
> but not present on another. There were no standards for which low notes
> to put on instruments. On the contrary, instruments were often created
> for specific compositions. Just consider Stadler's clarinets. His were
> the only ones with the basset notes on them and no other clarinet could
> be judged in the same way. Specialized ranges and notes is especially
> true with the fortepiano.
>
> One finds Mozart's music for one fortepiano using a note that is,
> technically, not present on the average fortepiano, but apparently,
> Mozart went somewhere and found a fortepiano that had that note. Why he
> even rewrote passages for piano when he did a work a second time on a
> different fortepiano, one that had notes not present on the first one.
> In fact, one finds passages with the melodic line crafted quite
> differently than one would expect, and in those cases, the direction of
> the line was influenced by the specific fortepiano's range.
>
> So finding one basset horn capable of playing a particular low note,
> while another could not is not a surprising condition at all.
>
> Still, I would like to see that video just for the pleasure of it. Too
> bad it does not seem to have aired on U.S. TV.
>
> "Alf Hörberg" wrote:
> >
> > Obviously my previews messages on this thread did not go through.
> >
> > Anyway, I
> > was just watching the video Anigma of K.621b a second time and for
people
> > who have been working with these issues there are no news in this film.
It
> > gives a very good overlook of what is known about many of the details
> > surrounding Mozart/Stadler/T. Lotz/K.621b, nicely presented by Robins
> > Landon. One central issue is the search for the "strange instrument"
Basset
> > horn in G, asked for in the Wintertuur fragments. This instrument is
> > supposed to be equipped with a low C# key since that note is written in
that
> > manuscript. Thome is traveling around to the museums where some of the
> > treasures basset-horns of the time are kept to find clues to the
mystery,
> > but of cause, he can't find a G-B.H from Mozart's time anywhere.
However, on
> > the journey he is presented to some other nice instruments made by
Theodore
> > Lotz and they are a pleasure to look at. Specially the three, by the
> > brothers Ronald and Robert Sebesta of Slovakia, newly discovered BHs
marked
> > 1,2 and 3 in conditions like new. After this discovery the amount of
still
> > existing Lotz basset-horns went up by 100%. They can be heard at
> > www.stadlertrio.com who got the honour to make a recording on these
> > instruments. The CD is: Glossa GCD 920603.
> >
> > One thing that is strange in this context is that I can't remember him
> > mentioning that the low C# already appears in the 25 pieces for
basset-horn
> > Trio of 1783? (also called 5 Divertimenti). So that key most likely must
> > have existed alredy on some BHs in F. There are no examples of an
existing
> > F-BH with that key either from that time.
> >
> > The film is really worth seeing since it's a good summary of what we
know so
> > far on this subject. I sure hope that we haven't seen the end of
discoveries
> > on this one yet.
> >
> > Alf
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Daniel Leeson <leeson0@-----.net>
> > To: <klarinet@-----.org>
> > Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2001 3:36 PM
> > Subject: Re: [kl] A TV show about K. 621b
> >
> > > Only one of the six notturni calls for a G basset horn. The others
are
> > > all for F basset horn. The G basset horn was used whenever the key
> > > selected would have required an A clarinet. In the case of the one
> > > notturno that calls for a G basset horn, the clarinet pair is in A.
> > >
> > > Dan Leeson
> > >
> > > Floyd Williams wrote:
> > > >
> > > > David,
> > > > yes,I found it very interesting.I didn't realise how little the
basset
> > > > horn in g had been used at the time.I just assumed it was usually in
f.
> > > > He also said that the Nocturnes(with voices) were for g basset horn
if I
> > > > understood him correctly.
> > > > When I get my copy back from Peter Spriggs I could send it to you to
> > > > make a copy.
> > > >
> > > > Floyd
> > > >
> > > > David Glenn wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Floyd,
> > > > >
> > > > > Do you recommend this film? I would also be interested to see it
and
> > maybe
> > > > > even obtain a copy for our local music school... We have PAL
> > standard in
> > > > > Germany) + also NTSC at home.
> > > > >
> > > > > David
> > > > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> > > > >
> > > > > Floyd Williams wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Dan,
> > > > > > I saw the film on SBS television in Australia and made a copy
for
> > Peter
> > > > > > Spriggs who happened to be on holiday(from Canada) in
Brisbane(Gold
> > > > > > Coast).He said he would have it converted to NTSC(I guess)from
PAL
> > and
> > > > > > return it to me.
> > > > > > IF you don't manage to get a copy or see it in the US,let me
> > know,and
> > > > > > I'll send it along to you.You'll need a VCR that shows both
formats
> > or
> > > > > > have it converted.
> > > > > > Easier still,you could get in touch with Peter at
> > > > > > peter@-----.com
> > > > > > and his web-site is at www.pspriggs.com
> > > > > > At the end of the documentary,Thomes proceeds to perform with
> > orchestra
> > > > > > the fragment which exists for basset horn.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > Floyd
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Floyd Williams
> > > > > > Queensland Conservatorium Griffith University
> > > > > > Brisbane, Qld. AUSTRALIA
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > > > --
> > > > Floyd Williams
> > > > Queensland Conservatorium Griffith University
> > > > Brisbane, Qld. AUSTRALIA
> > > >
> > >
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> > > --
> > > ***************************
> > > ** Dan Leeson **
> > > ** leeson0@-----.net **
> > > ***************************
> > >
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> --
> ***************************
> ** Dan Leeson **
> ** leeson0@-----.net **
> ***************************
>
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