Klarinet Archive - Posting 000585.txt from 2001/01

From: Mark Thiel <thielm@-----.com>
Subj: [kl] Lelia and the list
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 17:06:02 -0500

>

Hear, hear, I concur with all Tony has to say. And I had to
read Tony's rather length page twice to figure out that in
this case at least he had summed up this little imbroglio
as clearly and succinctly as possible. (And dammit,
I miss Lelia.)

Mark Thiel

>
> Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 20:02:27 GMT
> To: klarinet@-----.org
> From: Tony@-----.uk (Tony Pay)
> Cc: LeliaLoban@-----.com
> Subject: Lelia and the list
> Message-ID: <20010117.200227.75@-----.uk>
>
> I want to say that the nub of this matter is that it isn't really about
> politics at all.
>
> It's about *what is true*; and about the very important difference
> between what is true and *what can plausibly be asserted, and thus got
> away with*.
>
> Lelia made clear in her post on Usenet that what she objected to wasn't
> that she had been 'moderated' for being offtopic on a moderated Forum.
> What she objected to was being told that she had been moderated because
> she made a statement of similarity that she didn't in fact make, and
> one that she indeed repudiated. Moreover she went public with that
> objection only several weeks later, when it appeared that other people
> had been told she *had* made that statement of similarity, in a
> situation where those other people couldn't check for themselves.
>
> The accusation that someone has said or implied that something is
> similar to something else is always difficult to counter, because
> everything is similar to everything else in many respects -- actually,
> in infinitely many respects -- so simply *mentioning* in the same post
> two things that are superficially similar can make it plausible that
> they have been compared. It is necessary to examine carefully what has
> actually been said in order to determine the truth of the matter.
>
> Lelia did mention, at different points in her original post to the
> Clarinet Forum, both the persons she is alleged to have said to be
> similar. But examination of what she wrote shows quite clearly that she
> did not say that they are similar -- she mentioned the second of them
> only to make quite another point -- even though they obviously do
> exhibit trivial similarities, such as that they are both men and both
> leaders, for example.
>
> An angry someone might miss that fact on a first reading. But surely
> not on mature consideration. One might regret that the matter ever
> needed to be discussed. But now that it is under discussion, I have to
> say that the difficulty is much more important and fundamental than a
> political difference over the recent election; and saying erroneously
> that it reduces to such a political difference, and that such matters
> are off-topic, does not make the difficulty go away.
>
> Though I am particularly saddened by Lelia's departure from the Klarinet
> list, I am even more saddened, and very surprised, that Mark either
> cannot see, or is unwilling to acknowledge, the point. Whether or not
> you disagree with her political opinions or her expression of them,
> Lelia is an honourable person, and she has been wronged in this, even
> though that wrong may be invisible to those here who have only her word
> that it occurred.
>
> But it is visible to me, and perhaps to some others; and I call on Mark
> to remedy the wrong by acknowledging it, even though I am sure that
> doing so will not have Lelia return to the Klarinet list.
>
> Tony
> --
> _________ Tony Pay
> |ony:-) 79 Southmoor Rd Tony@-----.uk
> | |ay Oxford OX2 6RE GMN family artist: www.gmn.com
> tel/fax 01865 553339
>
> ...... Don't bother me... I'm living happily ever after.
>

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Unsubscribe from Klarinet, e-mail: klarinet-unsubscribe@-----.org
Subscribe to the Digest: klarinet-digest-subscribe@-----.org
Additional commands: klarinet-help@-----.org
Other problems: klarinet-owner@-----.org